FFS Mumsnet HQ - illegal images on threads

[Lagirl20]

Beware, the thread “weird message from friend” has some child abuse images on it!!! @mumsnet

Thanks for the heads up. I am now too scared to click on any other thread, just in case.

What if next time, the person posting these photos titles their thread in a similar way to you, and then posts the photos? Then lots more of us would have seen the photos.

The problem is that it is very difficult to automate picture censorship re: inappropriate images.

As humans, with a quick glance we can determine inappropriate pictures.

For a computer program - even with AI it's not that simple (it's very complex).

For example think of a picture of an adult in perfectly appropriate swimwear.

What is the colour of skin?

What "parts" are appropriately covered?

How do you define to a computer "appropriate parts"?

Especially when you consider the variation in human bodies and then combine with the angle the picture was as taken, the lighting, the distance (close up or far away) or how a picture is cropped.

There is no foolproof technology as stands.

There is tech that can filter, but it won't catch everything.

MNHQ may be a target right now, but other (massively bigger) platforms are subject to this issue.

I agree with this.

Dont speak to someone like they're stupid for not knowing that a hidden board for a secret nighttime moderation team exists.
Mumsnet have repeatedly been asked to make site users away of the nighttime system and the presence of the night watch board, but seemingly incidents like dealing with images of Child sexual abuse being hosted on Mumsnet are not a priority.

With all due respect, @kittensinthekitchen, I don’t think that @BiologicalRobot was talking to OP as though they are stupid. She clearly wrote something in a straightforward manner and it seems as though you are misreading things. MNHQ are doing their best and just because people aren’t aware, doesn’t mean a board is hidden.

Agree. It should not have been possible for this to happen again.

They posted this thread last week to say they’ve supposedly built a tool that will detect any images that shouldn’t be uploaded. That worked well then. As you can see, a lot of us questioned how it’s going to know the difference between people uploading photos of their genitals and asking health questions, and people uploading csa images like they did previously. Clearly the point has been proven that it’s not fit for purpose if this has been able to happen again. What an absolute joke

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/site_stuff/5269714-mnhq-update-on-image-uploads?page=2&reply=142145395

@Lanawashington I think there should be a blanket rule to not share such pictures because those should only be shown to the appropriate qualified medical professional. This might help with preventing PBPs from sharing CSAM and cut down the need for an AI to differentiate between pictures.

Didn't see it, but I'm on another women's site with strong anti trans views that was spammed with CSA for a long time.

Wasnt There another thread with disturbing images a few weeks ago?

Does anyone know if those children have been identified? Are they safe now?

i didn’t see any of the images luckily, it’s still extremely disturbing 😳

I understand there are some psychopaths who might like to see Csa photos, but what do people achieve my posting such images in a mums group !???

They hate women. Especially women with opinions. They do it because they get off on shocking & upsetting us, and they hope we'll stop using MN to talk to each other.

Given MNHQs track record with poor site functionality and roll out of changes it's hardly a surprise.

Good too see there was actually some action though, I had been looking out for a thread/message from them about the action they were taking. Stuff like this really should be pinned at the top of active for a few days or something. Likewise a "how to guide" on reporting posts if they still insist on the night watch board being used.

The fact that it’s going to take time is understandable.

But in that case images need to be banned until the solution is found. It simply cannot be done by trial and error.

TBH I imagine that MN HQ believed that they had found a way to mitigate against this hence why image uploads were re-allowed. But now this has been shown to not be the case. Although I’m not entirely sure how you test something like this because it’s not as if you can put it to the test by feeding it said images to make sure they’re blocked. So it may actually not be possible to block these kinds of images other than to ban image uploads altogether.

TBH this kind of thing isn’t unique. Not just CSA, but you only have to look at other social media to see that inappropriate content is constantly being uploaded, beheadings of e.g. Saddam Hussain were up on YouTube when they happened and that was more than a decade ago. That shooting in NZ where the terrorist did it on fb live, people upload images of car accidents and dead bodies and so on, and although most platforms do remove that kind of thing fairly quickly, it’s an issue that they’re able to be posted there in the first place.

In truth the only way to prevent harmful content being uploaded anywhere would be to ban photo and video content linking full stop. And there’s just no appetite for that, not least because the majority of content uploaded online isn’t of such a heinous nature. So this kind of content is only likely to become more prevalent, not just on MN but on the internet as a whole.

The online safety act already makes it mandatory for content to removed as soon as possible. if this kind of thing continues then it’s likely to have to be extended to penalise platforms who allow these uploads in the first place, is what will kill online uploads, as sites simply won’t allow them.
Edited because the last bit didn’t look right.

And I still screwed that up and now can’t edit any more, but essentially what I was trying to say at the end is that it’s likely to be laws holding sites accountable that will mean sites simply won’t allow uploads if there is the risk they will be penalised for doing so.

Also no one should be uploading photos of their genitals to a public forum, no matter how old they are, showing someone a picture of genitals without prior consent is also against the law. The fact that mumsnet doesn’t automatically ban people from exposing their genitals has always been problematic.

I posted a perfectly legal picture of a person the other day and got an auto message saying the photo had been hidden until someone can approve it. So the software is there, obviously needs tweeking.

Fully agree @Simonjt. Hence why I said that such photos should only be shared with an appropriate qualified medical professional.

They should probably only allow photos during office hours

Just to make clear I was quite happy that my legal photo was flagged, better safe than sorry. Didn’t want to sound like I was moaning about it.

Also it would take a lot of people to check every single photo that gets uploaded. Not sure on this site but it must be a nightmare on streaming sites.

@CerealPosterHere I understood it perfectly. It’s nice to know that the software is there and I agree that it might tweaking. But I think certain types of photos, particularly to seek medical advice, should not be allowed.

This is just unbelievable. I read the thread in site stuff after the last time and found their replies really poor.

Yes I agree. Genital photos aren’t ok whoever the person or intention. Photo of a rash is fine if on an arm, torso, etc.

I'm not usually one for quoting the OP, but I'm fucked if I'm scrolling down a thread again. Who was the sick fuck that copied images to the Urgent thread earlier.
I only quickly scrolled past unwittingly but the brief glimpse still has me feeling sick.

The fucking servers should have been shut down and the entire site taken offline.