Private schools extra holidays - how does this not harm outcomes

[Eranie]

Looking at 3 private schools around us at the primary level.

School 1 -
8 weeks summer
1 week October
3 weeks Christmas
1 week February
3 weeks Easter
1 week May

17 weeks total

School 2 -
8 weeks summer
1 week October
2 weeks Christmas
1 week February
2 weeks Easter
1 week May

15 weeks total

School 3 -
6 weeks summer
2 weeks October
2 weeks Christmas
1 week February
2 weeks Easter
1 week May

14 weeks total

All these schools seem to be very good academically. All have similar length school days (8.45-3.15 in infants, 8.45-3.30 in juniors). The one with the most holidays caps class sizes at 16 and guarantees a TA present at all times in infants and over 50% of the time in juniors. Others seem to cap class sizes at 20-22, not sure if a TA is always present.

AIBU to wonder how the school with 3 week end of term breaks is keeping academically which so much less time? Does anyone have any insight on this?

I don’t work so we can handle the long breaks and we live the facilities better at the school with the longer breaks (further out of the city so has more land, therefore tennis courts/pool/better playing grounds. However I’m concerned that with longer breaks they will fall behind academically?

Lots of reasons, they are free to set their own curriculum, most parents are pro education so support the schools objectives, smaller classes, they are often selective, homework

My daughters attend 3 different private schools and all 3 follow similar patterns. In prep shorter breaks, longer days and homework everyday from 4. Specialist lessons are taught by specialists do French is taught not by their class teachers but by a French teacher same with sciences, music, drama etc

But speak to the schools, they may have different methods.

They usually do additional learning sessions split by subject, but they don’t run everyday as far as I am aware. Equally most of the kids in year 4-5 would have a tutor working with them privately, depending on the exams they are planning to sit - this may be a couple of evenings each week in addition to their prep school schedule.

You’ve answered your own question. If I am understanding you correctly the school with longer holidays, has smaller class sizes & a guaranteed extra member of staff so the teaching hour provision works out at least equal if not higher & learning doesn’t only happen in class it can happen everywhere including on holiday.

When my daughter was at a private school in 00s, she attended Saturday mornings, was usually sports etc which gave more time during tge week for academic lessons.
Also there was very little (if any) disruptive students compared to what she encountered in her first year at state school.

This is true IME. Our school has just short of 30% of SEN according to their last ISC report. My child has autism and ADHD and among other things global development delay. That is why we put him in the school to begin with- because they had a good reputation for SEN provision. I am in several ADHD and Autism support groups for families locally and it is exceptionally common that families are so dismayed by state SEN provision that they stretch to put their child into our independent. Like we did as well. Thankfully we could do it and I am grateful every day.

The reality is that fee paying schools have pupils whose parents care about education, enough to be paying £15-20k a year. These dc will be having the back up at home to support learning and during the long holidays many will be sent to summer school or be taken on educational trips. They do well funny enough!

Is this outside London? London day schools generally seem to have longer core hours, however if you bolt clubs on and wrap care we have cover from 7:30am - 5:30pm, though all of that time isn’t spent learning. My research turned up that outside of London it was quite common for wrap care to be free of charge, is that the case at your setting?

Exactly!
My ASD son had more support in private, less children in the class, etc. However it was made clear to him that certain things were unacceptable, and they were very good at making the difference between ‘acting out’ that was actually a result of his ASD and ‘acting out’ that was him being a 7yo boy.
What I am trying to say is that in state the support is there but due to lack of ressources SN children might almost be given a free card to do whatever they want because nobody has time to analyse where exactly is the line between special needs and bad behaviour. In an independent school they might weed out the badly behaved SN kids, same as they weed out the badly behaved NT ones. But they support the other ones.

Well schools in Ireland have shorter days and longer holidays, but out perform the UK across the board.
Time does not equal achievement

I work in a top 100 Independent Day School. We are selective and have supportive (mostly) parents and very well qualified and experienced staff. I think we just get through the stuff more quickly and without having to do quite so much repetitive testing. We are also free to teach how we choose so if I’m teaching something to GCSE I can vary how long I spend in certain texts depending on how the class is getting on. The marking is intense. I’d say that in the recent half term I’ve marked about 200 essays for A level and GCSE English plus Year 7 stuff but I’m pretty efficient at that after many years of practice. We don’t have any gaps in departments- so Maths, Physics etc all well qualified people with degrees and we have a lot of teachers with 20 years plus experience.

I really think the DfE and Ofsted need to look around at other areas and see what works! Can I ask what the inspection regime looks like in Ireland and also the teacher recruitment and retention? What about attendance fines and pupil mental health? Is school viewed less as 'childcare'?

We’ve actually had this discussion before on here, and the numbers located in official stats showed that there were MORE sen kids in the private schools…

Not sure the day start/end times are comparable - depends how long assembly/registration/lunch are?

Private Senior school DD has 5 1hr lessons each day, class sizes for 9 GCSEs vary by subject from the 'full' 22ish for English to 9 for Art.

School year is shorter than other local schools, homework load is negligible.

She has been there since yr2 and I'm only aware of one pupil being asked to depart in that time (great kid, very bright, but indulgent parents, was suggested she find alternative senior school)

School has excellent/top results - i can only assume this is down to:
Selection.
Different subject teachers.
Few, not no, disruptive pupils.
Teachers identifying specific needs of each pupil and tailoring their workload.
Parental involvement

But presumably if he's got GDD it's not an academically selective private school? Aren't most private schools selective?

It's not academically selective, no.

@Eranie I am a primary school teacher and teach in the state sector so have 30 children in my class. What might take me an hour to teach to 30 children will take less time to teach to 16 children especially if I have an additional adult in the classroom. My DC go to private school and have longer holidays (although they have a longer school day in secondary) and certainly haven't fallen behind.

I'm not sure it is the holidays themselves that cause children to drop behind, it is what parents do with the children during the holidays. If your holidays are filled with foreign trips, work experience with family contacts, and tennis camp you are likely to do well. Parents who value education enough to pay for it are also more likely to support home reading and self study.

About half are academically selective, so half are not. Among those that are selective it can vary widely what that means.

Aren't most private schools selective?

They may be academically selective and they are financially selective.

Yes my daughter loves all the holiday clubs from canoeing, to diving to animation. So much choice.

There are no fines at all. Inspections are a thing, they don't seem to be too stressful. Teaching recruitment and retention is good, teachers in Ireland seem to be far less stressed and far happier than the UK ones I know.
Pupil mental health...well it's hard to say, but they do wellness in primary school and yoga and lots of talking about feelings, in secondary they have lots of supports and a whole year called transition year between junior and senior cycles (aged approx 15) where they do minimum academic work but lots of work experience, team building and enrichment classes.
There's very little talk of failing schools and good schools, they're all pretty even. Very few go private. There are still quite a few single sex schools and of course Irish language medium schools.

I've had kids in school in UK and then Ireland and the latter is far better all round.

Smaller classes, longer school days, weekend school, better support at home, families are more likely to do extra-curricular activities in the holidays and evenings...

DS is at private for secondary only & I've noticed is they are so focussed. Yes 3 weeks at Easter but my understanding is that Y11s are in for some of those days for focussed study sessions.

Thanks everyone. I think I should have clarified this isn’t London or the south east.

Our city has 5 private schools and every single one of them is 3-18. While they do have entrance exams for moving to seniors, if you’re happy at your current school your child wouldn’t need to do them.

Of the 6 each are sort of known for their own thing

• 1 is heavily religious
• 1 is massive, its fees are the lowest but lots say “kids get lost here”
• 1 is very academic, achieves the best results in the senior school
• 1 is known for having the best SEN support but it trails in other areas, not massively though
• 1 is smaller and outside the city, it’s more expensive than the others, however from all I’ve heard isn’t struggling to keep kids despite the VAT. Apparently it’s because they are just outside the most affluent suburb and it save parents from there having to drive into the city, they have the best sports facilities end access to specialist teachers. They have specialist for PE, French, Music and Art from the start.

It’s not a competitive 11+, traditional prep school area.

School 2 seems pretty in line with state school holidays. Apart from the extra 2 weeks in summer, the other holidays are the same.

Reason is longer school days, and an expectation that kids stay after school for clubs etc.