Mums strange lie

[dontsaystuff]

One day when I was about 7/8 I remember my mum coming home visibly upset and rushing to the bathroom. I followed her to find her undressed, in tears and scrubbing at her skin. She was covered in arrows, dots and lines almost like surgical markings but on every inch of her skin.

She shut the door, I asked her about it often for the next couple of weeks she said that it was ‘just drawings’ and that she was fine. I could tell she continued to be upset by it and honestly feel like she changed since then.

I asked about it again a couple of years later and she completely denied it even happening, said it must have been a dream. The couple of other times I’ve asked about it she’s stuck to that story. I’d convinced myself that it might have been but it feels like it was such a clear l memory from my childhood, not just seeing her but the conversations we had after. I was very scared, confused and upset by it, still am.

Last year she got an upwards arrow tattooed on her wrist, she looked upset/guilty when I saw it. I’ve just seen a photo of her that shows a series of dashed lines tattooed on her other arm.

It’s driving me crazy, I can’t stop thinking about what could have happened, why she would get the tattoos and seeing her covered in the markings.

I understand that something upsetting obviously happened to her and why she wouldn’t want to tell me but
AIBU in thinking that it’s not fair to say I made it up especially when she’s gotten these tattoos?

Have you asked about the tattoos?

Just asked what they signify etc? Rather then in relation to the memory.

I'm sorry for you. It sounds like it was real and a traumatic experience for you and your mum and it's tough to know something happened to you mum and not be able to bring it up.

I overheard my mum say something extremely disturbing, and I've never felt able to bring it up with her as it's too painful, and it's hard holding that so I relate.

I honestly do both empathize and sympathise with the OP and have been in a very similar position with my own parent, but life if not a book with every loose end tied up. Unfortunately we sometimes have to learn to navigate life with scary memories unvalidated.

I do truly understand what the OP is seeking but I'm also mindful that there is potentially a very vulnerable woman at the centre of this whose behaviour might not be making sense but is still entitled to privacy and protection.

If you were my daughter I'd be really annoyed if you kept asking me something I didn't want to discuss, or never happened. Your mum is a person in her own right and she doesn't need to discuss something with you if she doesn't want to.

I think that the OP has clarified that she just wants her mother to confirm that what she saw did happen. I know that the mother is entitled to privacy but the OP was a 7 year old child witnessing something that was very scary for her. The mother is no doubt living with traumatic memories and the OP is living with a sense of bewilderment and disorentation about a very significant and upsetting event. It is truly horrible for both and I can understand both sides. But I always feel that we choose to have our children and we should prioritise their fears and upset over ours where we can do so, whilst respecting our own boundaries.

@dontsaystuff This is so psychologically damaging for you because your DM has brushed it off by saying it must be a dream you had, then got tattoos like the very marks you’ve asked her about. That would mess with anyone’s head.

There’s a slight possibility it was a dream, you hallucinated it for some reason or you’ve misremembered what happened. But, then why on earth would she mess with your head by getting the tattoos?

You’ve made it clear you’re not wanting your mum to tell you why she was covered in marks, upset and scrubbing herself. You’re not expecting her to talk about something she doesn’t want to. All you want is for her to acknowledge you remember correctly, so you can feel sane.

IMHO the best course of action is to let your mum know how much it’s affecting you and reassure her all you need is acknowledgement it happened and then you won’t keep pushing her to tell you any more. If she loves you, she’ll do that. If she promises you faithfully it never happened, then she owes you a plausible explanation for the tattoos and to acknowledge they made you more confused.

The bizarre thing about this is that you remember her absolutely covered in marks. What on earth would cause that? Perhaps your childhood memory has embellished the number of marks because it was a distressing incident for you?

If you get nothing from your mum on any of this, the only thing you can do, to stop it mentally torturing you, is let it go. You and your mum are both alive and well. You have a close relationship. Feel grateful for that. Look forward rather than back. Therapy may help.

My first thought was maybe she'd been to see a plastic surgeon because they to this at consultation. These type of things:

https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/drawn-lines-on-mixed-colorwomans-face-44871976

https://www.alamy.com/close-up-of-male-doctor-drawing-marks-on-woman-body-before-plastic-surgery-plastic-surgeon-holding-ruler-and-drawing-line-on-abdomen-of-female-patient-concept-of-abdominoplasty-cosmetic-surgery-image398469466.html

https://gothamplasticsurgeryny.com/5-reasons-why-cosmetic-surgeons-draw-on-patients-before-treatment/

Posters keep saying the mum is an individual, leave her alone to process her trauma etc - and yes, I can see this. But - she is a mother with a responsibility to parent her child. For whatever reason she exposed her child to something disturbing and mysterious that has troubled that child ever since.

The OP should not be shamed for wanting clarity - for needing it.

@Alalalala I'm not shaming her and there are a couple of very dark memories from my own childhood that my mum couldn't/would't shine clarity on. And to keep chipping away at it would have harmed her so I had to move forward with the unanswered questions, that still plague me sometimes. But there are no other choices but to carry on.

If the OP truly feels that she cannot do that then she would be best talking to a professional and getting some support that way.

As someone who has experienced a death of a parent, I would add if this is still bothering you to this degree and your mother is still alive, I'd have a serious formal try at having it out with her - believe me the things you never asked or spoke about torture you after death because you can't get any answers.

I would 'make an appointment' to see her, when you both have time and are alone and private. Tell her you have something to discuss that is deeply troubling you. Be calm and not emotional but tell her what you have said here
that you remember this
it really traumatised you
since then it has gravely disturbed you that she won't discuss it and whilst you appreciate that she is entitled to her own privacy that because this has been so distressing for you in three ways - the trauma of what you saw (seeing a parent distressed as a child is very destabilising especially if you don't understand it), her initial 'lie' (don't call it that) and then her repeated attempt to gaslight you (Again don't call it that either). That you remain very distressed by this years later and still havd dreams about it.
That you aren't asking for great detail but just even the barest explanation about what had happened even if it was 'I had seen a surgeon and it related to [radio therapy/plastic sugery' and I was upset because [general answer] to help you deal with it and calm you.
You could add if she is still no keen you recently heard of someone who was traumatised because a parent died and they couldn't get any answers and

Speaking as someone post - lost, I would have a good and serious try again and explain why, make clear it is important to you - becuase once they are gone, it will torture you - not just that you don't know but you didn't give it one last big try to find answers to help you mentally.

If you go for one Big Deal formal meeting then it avoids the 'chipping away' 'pestering' about it.

You definitely don't want to be in a position where on her death bed you are pestering her about this.

Unless she were a contortionist, how would she b able to draw all over her body?

The strangest part of this story is why her mum, presumably quite elderly now, went to get a tattoo. Does she have other tattoos? Has she had a lifestyle in her youth where she would get frequent tattoos so getting one later in life isn't a big deal? Someone getting their first tattoo in their 60s or 70s would be extremely unusual, especially if it connects to decade long trauma.

100%.

Her child was distressed by what she saw (or even dreamt or imagined) at 7/8. The mum brushed it off with ‘they’re only drawings’. Fair enough.

At 9/10, she’s told her she must have dreamt it and has stuck that that since. Fair enough if it’s true and the ‘they’re only drawings’ was part of the dream/imagination. Not fair enough if it’s a lie because that’s gaslighting your own child.

At some later point, she’s got tattoos of that very thing. That’s messing with your kid’s head.

Exactly!

If she were your daughter, wouldn't you want to help her get the closure she is so clearly seeking, on an episode which was traumatic to her as a child?

Yes, I don't get why OP's troubled memory override's her mother's clearly obvious wish for privacy. (Or that OP's 'trauma' somehow overrides the obvious trauma her mother still carries)

There is "no right to understand".

Please do not make sweeping assertions about concentration camp survivors and assert that they all wish to share their experiences!!

Equally you could say why does the adult's trauma override a child's??
It's not competition. They're both traumatized in this situation.

With the help of a mirror you could quite easily reach 80% of your body. The back would be the only area you can't draw on. However I also think OP's recollection of the markings covering "every part of her body" could be a false memory, unless she came through the door naked or actively took all her clothes off while her daughter watched. It sounds more like she came home in normal clothing, her arms and possibly neck/face was covered with marks and this was interpreted by a child as being all over.

I think the explanation is probably quite banal, possibly a MH episode or maybe some type of alternative "therapy" that went wrong. May be she went to some kind of shaman or energy healer and was made to take part in a ritual that she was later ashamed of. Or someone promised her a job as model and it turned out to be a creepy setup that wasn't serious. She was probably too embarrassed about it all and denied it happening. The tattoo might just be a coincidence, although that in itself is the oddest detail for me. How many 60-70 year olds get tattoos on a whim? This seems to indicate more about her personality and possible past lifestyle that could explain the incident OP remembers.

Yep. Also humans are by nature curious creatures, so it's all well and good people saying the mum just needs to confirm to the OP that it happened. But nobody can say that once the OP has that confirmation then her mind wouldn't start overrunning with further questions she'd need the answers to.

I think some posters are being unfair. While your mum is entitled to her privacy, this is a really confusing memory for you and the recent tattoos are making you even more confused. It's understandable that you would want some kind of answer or acknowledgement after your mum denied this happening but then got tattoos, even if she just said something bad happened and she didn't want to talk about it.

My assumption is that she went for an appointment for plastic surgery, chickened out/got upset about it, and now has the tattoos as a symbol of overcoming low self esteem and realising she doesn't need surgery. But this is just my interpretation

And you think that’s a helpful reply??? You should be ashamed!

RTFT. That wasn't in reply to the OP.

She is also a mother who had the responsibility of a child. And that child got traumatised by it.

Gaslighting your child, or anyone for that matter, never ends well. in particular, it sounds like this is what has caused tye most upset for the OP.

She could easily confirmed the OP was right. That she is sorry for the lie. And also tell the OP she isn’t comfortable talking about it.

I also think you have to be aware that if you get the answers you are looking for you may find it more distressing than not knowing. Why don't you talk it through with a therapist before deciding what you want to do?