to think some people think WFH should be a constant nose to the grindstone?

[Yodeloo]

I think some jobs are like that definitely. Heavy workload, helplines etc

Some people think all WFH should be like this and get horrified because someone hung some washing out or helped out a family member for a short time. Plenty of jobs have flexibility and it is about getting the job done not just being present in front of the computer non stop.

I get all my life admin done throughout the day around work. I do an exercise class most mornings and then start work later on the days I WFH. I will meet up with friends, work on my side business. Nobody cares at my work. All targets are met consistently.

Is it jealousy that people get so upset?

I do one WFH day a week, and have one non-working day (a Wednesday). I’m a lecturer and on my WFH day I teach two remote classes, and get my lesson prep/marking done for the rest of the week. Do I stick a wash on first thing/sort it/hang it? Yes of course. Generally after my second remote class I’m kind of done, because I work far more efficiently at home and batter through all my work in the morning with no distractions. I am often pottering around the house, but available to attend to my laptop if it beeps with emails or messages.

Today on my non-working (unpaid, I am on a .8 contract) day I have replied to numerous emails/Teams messages, and also arranged a referral for a student who needs support for personal issues. I figure it all balances out, and am grateful to have a manager who feels the same.

Pp mentioned the Teams status going to “away”. I changed mine to offline about two years ago when a student said I would get into trouble if management saw. I was standing right next to her, in a teaching space, on campus, with my laptop at the other side of the room. Not all work is done at a desk!

I think the main worry about WFH is that a lot of jobs that provably can be done remotely are now being moved to wherever in the world labour is cheapest.

What a load of tosh.
Some employers - mine included - have closed their brick and mortar workplaces to save money. Why pay office leases and provide furniture and heating when they can make their employees work from home and provide only laptops and cellphones?

It's not a question of whether the employee realises this though is it?

If people at work have time to hang out washing or go to exercise classes, they are not being managed properly and are not as productive as they should be. I think WFH should be cracked down on as too many are clearly swinging the lead.

Sorry, not sure what you mean here?

You've misunderstood. The previous poster was talking about whether or not the employer has realised, not the employee.

And again, this kind of 'gotcha' - oh, your work is going to be offshored hahahaha, back to the office with you, slacker! - is another example of lack of imagination. Not everyone who WFH is doing calls or sales. My job doesn't really exist outside of the UK and certainly couldn't be done via a call centre in Bangalore or wherever. And if a job can genuinely be done better by AI, than the office / WFH argument is irrelevant anyway.

But you know, carry on gloating at the chance that some people could possibly lose jobs because they work in a way that you don't understand; that's a great look for you.

So deal with their managers. They were clearly failing when their staff were in the office full time, hiding behind a culture of presenteeism.

Or realise that it’s not the end of the world if someone does an exercise class and makes up the time later. Not everything has to slot into a 9-5 pattern and might actually be better with flexibility.

Yes. Some days are mad busy and others are very quiet. Work ebbs and flows.

I have targets to meet and meet them all consistently.

I can meet the targets and do the laundry, go out for walks, go for exercise classes and meet up with friends during working hours.

You clearly fall into the nose to the grindstone group then.

I think people don’t understand different jobs. When I was in the office full time (and on most office days now), I’ll end up taking a long 2 hour lunch to meet friends. I might go and grab a social coffee with a colleague in the afternoon. None of that is frowned upon if work is done to deadline. The same sort of attitude extended to WFH. I always have my phone on my in case I’m needed urgently, but otherwise I can be pretty relaxed about where I am at any specific time.

I think it’s jealousy. I would love to be able to do this, I’d get so much done and it would make life easier. Unfortunately WFH would never be possible with my job.

I think people don’t understand different jobs.

Sums up a great deal of the discourse on remote working!

It is jealousy.

I have worked at home for a few years; when I first started I did not stop, I seriously thought I should be working at 💯. My manager told me to slow down as I was going to burnout. I get everything done and more but I also clean the house, get life admin sorted and exercise a few times a week.

I am so productive at home and rarely go into the office.

I think jobs vary and obviously some you're required to be available for certain hours, although I imagine most wfh jobs have a degree of flexibility to them.
I understand when pp say they work 37 hours a week but it doesn't matter when those hours happen. I'm slightly more surprised at the amount of people on MN saying they can get all their work done in eg 2-3 hours/day. I get that in any job there might be dead time, breaks for the loo, chatting etc but is there really only 25% of the day active working? (I chat at the same time as working!) Why would companies pay people ft money for a 10 hr a week job, surely that's pt? But I'm always shouted down for that argument and everyone is being paid for their knowledge, experience and expertise rather than their time

There are people who wfh and regularly take the piss, though. And they seem to like gloating about it.

Yes I do washing in the middle of the day. And I might tidy up the kitchen for 10 mins. But I work in a senior role where I do above my contracted hours each week, often work through lunch, and tend to work late one evening a week when email traffic is quiet to keep up. It's accepted that we can do things like go for an appt for an hour or so if our diary is quiet and we make the time up as needed. Often we probably don't need to due to the extra we do, it's very much a culture of trust and being available to meet business needs. But I would be taking the piss to do a gym class in the working day. They will be fine with me going to do the school pick up and logging on after bedtime though, because they're supportive of family life.

Yes and no. I WFH but think there's a big difference between taking an exercise class (presumably that's at least an hour out) within working hours and sticking a washing on (5 minutes, so same as a chat over the kettle in the office).

We have core hours. It's hard enough getting hold of people some days, never mind having to take their exercise routine into account. Those sort of things should be done outside core hours if it is going to impact the rest of the team.

Tell me you don't work for a law firm without telling me you don't work for a law firm!

Depends on the job. Although I am part of a team I work in my own projects and often in complete isolation from anyone else. I rarely get an email that needs to be responded to immediately - that’s just not my role.

So I can easily go to the shops or do an exercise class and not get any emails at all in that time, let alone any that need an immediate response. I never have any meetings, either in person (I do 2 days in the office) or online. I don’t use Teams at all. My phone rarely rang.

Not everyone’s role is the same.

Exactly

Whereas I work from home with timed breaks and lunches and no flexibility in hours
My shift is my shift and I need to be at my desk

I think lots of it is failure to understand different types of jobs.

Lots of my job is decision making, thinking about things, weighing things up, deciding which direction to go.

It’s not really about speed typing or constant zoom calls.

Agree a lot is jealousy.... when I worked from home I could do my job in half the time as I wasn't constantly interrupted for things that were nothing to do with my role. If you are getting the job done theres no issue

A "proper" job - so one that ends by 5pm and comes with 13 weeks' holiday, then? Obviously I'm being facetious, but people who work in schools still get time to get home asking done, just not during their working day.

I am able to get stuff done like the washing etc whilst WFH, but my "core" hours of 9-5 have only ever been the minimum expectation in my field of work, so getting those jobs done does not take anything away from my employer. Hanging the washing is a healthy break for my eyes and a chance to stretch my legs for 10 minutes!

A lot of the comments stem from jealousy - and a total lack of understanding of what other people job's entail. My comment above about schools is in jest but there are a lot of people who genuinely believe teachers clock off at 3.30 every day.

I think it depends. Yes, I put the washing on and I go to the gym in my lunch break when I'm WFH but I still work my hours and I'm contactable at all times apart from the lunch break. I've managed people who definitely took the piss and were generally unproductive and uncontactable at home.