For not understanding why "populism" is seen as such a bad thing

[TemporaryPosition]

Is the point of democracy not to have popular support?

We already had sovereignty
And I don't think most people were particularly interested in that anyway until it was constant mentioned by Farage etc. What people cared about was their lives and how much money they had. They mistakenly believed that leaving the EU would make their lives better. Some of them didn't even know what the EU was

It isn't. Populism is really quite damaging to a country. Just look at what it's done to the UK.

With extreme violence! His empire descended into war following his death.

That borderline illiterate nonsense with lumps of AI blarney - and absolutely no understanding of history - was quite the ride.

I didn't have "we need a strong leader like Genghis Khan" on my bingo card for tonight.
A 'strong leader' like Putin is working out so well for Russia, isn't it...

His famous quote was
”Man’s greatest joy is in victory: to slay one’s enemies to take his possessions, ride his horses and fuck his wives and daughters”

Is that what inspired Jilly Cooper?🐎🐎🐎

A different Khan that was Chingiz Khan

@TemporaryPosition That you voted Reform is the least surprising thing I've read in weeks.

It wasn't an argument. I'm resigned to the standard of discourse this PP likes best, I've faced an army of straw men and you didn't blink about that. But it raises the point. If these posters don't like me voting because I don't vote for candidates they like, and declare it dangerous, maybe voting isn't the best idea. The history of "democracy" is fascinating. Throughout most of history it has been considered the worst form of governance. And would also degenerate into necessary tyranny.

Where did Plato day we needed democracy? I got the impression The Republic was saying the opposite

Better we make sure nobody is allowed to vote on anything of substance because they're not clever enough.

People confuse popular, and populist. It's a symptom of a culture where you only listen to the first four letters in every word.

@pointythings

"Let's give it a Parliament before we decide, shall we?"

Fair enough- each person decides the time frame to evaluate the performance of the Government.

But it's a bit like saying "let's give Brexit a decade to determine whether it was a success or not" when imo it was clear before and after the vote that it would be economically damaging.

Certainly not something as important as Brexit. That was billed as a once in a lifetime event and would have impact on everyone's life
Elections that take place every five years are different because everyone has another vote later.
The problem with referendums is they are usually about a very complex subject and people just do not look at the small print they only look at the headline messages that are very often untrue and far too simplistic

I don't think so.

The op has put up a good thread and the definitions haven't stood ground

People can decide now. If someone is public sector it may feel like time is what you have but for those losing jobs it doesn't.

Don't let people vote on anything actually important 👌

To focus in Brexit, what was it for ?

I wouldn't start a project that cost £100 without having a clear set of metrics to know it had worked or not.

The very fact we can't know if Brexit "worked" or not speaks volumes.

That said, a lot of government seems to be about punting vague aspirations with no firm objective metrics. Which infuriates me.

Your correct, Plato's main critique of democracy is that it prioritizes excessive freedom over order and wisdom. He argues that in a democracy, citizens are ruled by their desires rather than by reason, leading to instability and eventual descent into tyranny

I was quite prepared to give Brexit time, despite having opposed it. I would have been delighted to be wrong. Sadly, I wasn't.

I have now given up on Labour over their despicable policy of not allowing anyone arriving by small boat or similarly to ever gain citizenship. It's spiteful, stupid and vindictive. Let's hope the Lib Ddms do exceedingly well out of it.

Sounds a little akin to Tytlers critique.

We need to be wary of classical discussions of democracy. They were all enthusiastic slave states and that tends to colour what the wants and needs of "the masses" really are. It would be nice to think this is a problem of the ancients. But then you see Bills of Sale for slaves in the US dated in the 1860s 😮 and you realise it's not that far away.

You cannot be serious!

You be serious! 🤣 how many Labour voters read the manifesto, even a little bit of it. As a percentage.

Tbf even if they did Labour's manifesto means little

They're rowing pretty hard in opposite directions - growth down, crossings up, and now going for Reform voters which won't work