Telling people they're powerless over alcohol/substances is dangerous

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Had a conversation with a friend recently (not an addict) where they got upset with me for saying that it's always a choice to use substances. I believe it is, while acknowledging the huge difficulty people face getting out of these habits.

Others are of the opinion that it isn't a choice and that it's not in the person's control. I think this view is completely disempowering, and possibly dangerous.

I speak from experience of poly-substance 'addiction' which I'm currently in. I make the choice to buy drugs and have a drink. It's easier than dealing with the underlying issues. Let's face it, it's the easy, familiar, comforting choice. It's very hard and humbling to admit that I just don't like being sober and facing reality.

Luckily I only hurt myself, however sometimes it's pretty bad and the shame that I feel afterwards is really justified (while also understanding that I'm human and allowing for a bit of self-compassion which I'm working on). If i was to accept that these actions were not my own responsibility, then I'd be even less likely to try and keep myself in check.

I'm starting to realise it's all on me, I can't make excuses because I know what I'm doing to myself and I do it anyway. I refuse to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. I have a lot of underlying trauma and mental health issues, a lot of character defects that have led me to this. Those things are not my fault but I made and continue to make shitty choices.

If I believed what AA told me, I'd believe I had an 'allergy' or that I'm just different to other people and I don't have power over it. I've friends who are terrified to miss a meeting because they've been told so many times that AA is what's keeping them sober. I think they WANT to be sober so they're abstaining and it's as simple as that, although of course a support network is always helpful.

AIBU to think that it's better to encourage self responsibility and accountability than helplessness?

It's part of the creeping trend towards infantilising everyone.

Don't feel bad about anything - you can't help it, and nothing is your fault.

I think it's a difficult one. In from a family of addicts and they happily told themselves that it was something that happened to them and they had no control over it- I truly believe that they thought this.

If you have any friends or family I would argue that you are not just hurting yourself. It's really difficult to have a loved one who is an addict.

Yes! A healthy bit of shame is good for society I think. Not self-flagellating but recognising that what you did wasn't good so that you can learn from it.

Did they ever get better?

I accept what you're saying. My family don't know about it as we're not close. Most of my friends currently are ones that I've made from support groups. A couple of closer friends that, although I've never hurt them, borrowed money, been nasty, that type of thing, I probably have worried them a bit.

It is encouraging responsibility. Responsibility to not take the first drink, because if you do you'll be powerless not to have another. I don't think the intent is for people to think "Ah well, I'm an alcoholic, nothing I can do but sit here powerless until it gets the better of me" rather to help them understand that where they are concerned alcohol is a powerful enemy, more powerful than them and so they need to stay away from it. I think putting things in these terms helps people understand why their relationship with alcohol can't be the same as the man down the street who isn't an alcoholic. As does viewing it as an allergy. It's just a way of explaining and helps a lot of people.

@5128gap this is a really good way of explaining it. I had felt the same as OP before - not really getting how it was a useful theory. It makes sense if you view it as being powerless against the substance, so needing to avoid it completely rather than thinking 'I can just have a little this once.'

Perhaps. But from the meetings I've been to there's definitely an attitude that you have to make AA your whole life or you WILL relapse and you WILL die. The idea is that you need AA for the rest of your life. There's no such thing as recovery, you're only ever recovering (which I disagree with). People swap alcohol addiction for a reliance on Alcoholics Anonymous. This is just what I've experienced along with a lot of general weirdness and bullying. In saying that, I do get something out of it, I just don't fully buy into all of it.

It’s the first drink - I think we have a choice over weather or not to take a first drink, after that I believe that some of us do not have a choice as the addition takes over.

I understand it, I just don't buy it. That's their theory, but lots of people with substance abuse issues CAN moderate in time. That's not to say that everyone should.

It’s true if you’re addicted though. It’s not entirely within your control.

As for AA/NA - it’s not for everyone. Some people find it really helpful some people find it weird and don’t like it 🤷‍♀️

I think that obviously after one drink your ability to reason and make good decisions will be slightly impaired. But that also doesn't mean that it's a given that you'll go and drink the whole lot. I seem to be able to moderate until the days where I think 'fuck it' but that's my choice at the time. It's not because I don't have power over alcohol, it's because I've got poor impulse control.

There's no such thing as recovery, you're only ever recovering

Which is true. It fits with one day at a time.

I'm addicted. Whatever that means. According to popular understanding. It's still in my control to abuse substances? Do you mean physical dependency?

But AA is only one school of thought and it's not fact? You don't think recovery is possible?

It is a choice. I understand that an addiction makes the draw to the substance much harder to resist. However, it's still a choice to resist or not. We have an addict in our extended family - drugs/alcohol. He's the victim. He's been given chance after chance. Stints in rehabs. Family have bent over backwards to offer help/support. He's had professional help too. He's still the victim, can't help it, and it's a constant stream of 'poor me'. Addicts are selfish. The damage it does to the immediate family, close friends etc is horrendous - yet he's still blameless and the victim. Sadly, after yet another stint in rehab, that will work for a time, I don't hold much hope out, that he will ever recover or be drug/alcohol free.

I agree with you. I want what I want when I want it. When I'm in that mindset I'm really selfish. I'm glad I've got no partner or kids because right now I'd be damaging them

Quite. Same as the concept obesity is a “disease” and can’t be helped 😳 (despite well over half the population being overweight. No personal responsibility to be taken for one’s own weight and it’s all trauma related even when it isn’t!)

As a fat bastard I agree with this too 😆

I think you've misunderstood the message. It's not that you don't have the power to choose, but that (as an addict) if you choose to drink you then won't have the power to stop. You therefore need to take responsibility for not having the first drink.

It's part of the creeping trend towards infantilising everyone.

FFS. It's advice given to recovering alcoholics to help them manage their addiction and it has been the same for nearly a century. What's your suggested alternative- "go on, just have one"?

I agree. that’s why I never even considered AA when I got sober. They do amazing things and have saved so many lives, but their way is not the only way. If it was, I reckon I’d still be drinking.

Usual signs of alcohol dependence include

• not being able to function without alcohol - for example, not being able to do your job or carry out daily tasks
• drinking has become an important, or the most important, thing in life
• continuing to drink despite negative consequences for you or your loved ones
• finding it difficult to control the amount or the times when you drink
• finding it difficult to stop drinking when you want to
• not always being able to plan with certainty how much you are going to drink on an occasion
• drinking increasing amounts of alcohol
• craving alcohol or having withdrawal symptoms
• not seeming to be drunk after drinking large amounts

But if your not physically dependent you probably aren’t at this level of dependence.

The number of people who don't want to take responsibility for their own actions is mind boggling.

I feel so old sometimes as some of my younger colleagues look at me as if I've grown two heads for even suggesting such a thing.

But I can stop - if I want to. I just don't normally because it's easier to get off my tits than face life.

I feel like any criticism of A is met with "you've just not accepted your problem" or "you're not a real alcoholic". Not directed at you btw, there's just a lot of flaws in their theory. I am an alcoholic and I can definitely stop after one. I just choose not to.

No I definitely fit a lot of those. I still think it's my choice. And I'm not powerless.

I've messed up a lot of things because of my substance abuse. Being able to see that has actually made me feel a lot better than I did when I was believing people who told me it wasn't my fault.