Telling people they're powerless over alcohol/substances is dangerous

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Had a conversation with a friend recently (not an addict) where they got upset with me for saying that it's always a choice to use substances. I believe it is, while acknowledging the huge difficulty people face getting out of these habits.

Others are of the opinion that it isn't a choice and that it's not in the person's control. I think this view is completely disempowering, and possibly dangerous.

I speak from experience of poly-substance 'addiction' which I'm currently in. I make the choice to buy drugs and have a drink. It's easier than dealing with the underlying issues. Let's face it, it's the easy, familiar, comforting choice. It's very hard and humbling to admit that I just don't like being sober and facing reality.

Luckily I only hurt myself, however sometimes it's pretty bad and the shame that I feel afterwards is really justified (while also understanding that I'm human and allowing for a bit of self-compassion which I'm working on). If i was to accept that these actions were not my own responsibility, then I'd be even less likely to try and keep myself in check.

I'm starting to realise it's all on me, I can't make excuses because I know what I'm doing to myself and I do it anyway. I refuse to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. I have a lot of underlying trauma and mental health issues, a lot of character defects that have led me to this. Those things are not my fault but I made and continue to make shitty choices.

If I believed what AA told me, I'd believe I had an 'allergy' or that I'm just different to other people and I don't have power over it. I've friends who are terrified to miss a meeting because they've been told so many times that AA is what's keeping them sober. I think they WANT to be sober so they're abstaining and it's as simple as that, although of course a support network is always helpful.

AIBU to think that it's better to encourage self responsibility and accountability than helplessness?

Although I think that, the end result is something that can't be changed. That you're acknowledging it is a plus point.

My friend died of alcoholism and I never saw her drink or drunk, hard to believe I know. She no way wanted to die, she couldn't stop. There's very little keeping it in check, to think so is a fallacy that is the disease itself making you feel in control and responsibility whilst destroying you from the inside out. I'm sorry to be stark but that's my opinion. Of course people need AA and structural support, very few people can stop otherwise. Help would have made a difference to my friend, hardly anyone can do it alone.

I don’t think an addict can ever recover, no. They’re one drink or fix away from reactivating their addiction.

Impulse control is largely governed by the brain’s prefrontal cortex. This is an area of the brain that is significantly damaged by alcohol - that damage can persist for months/years after stopping drinking depending on the level of damage.

Of course there can be other reasons for poor impulse control (dementia, trauma) but poor impulse control is not a natural state for the human brain to be in - we’d never survive to adulthood otherwise. Your poor impulse control is almost certainly caused by your alcohol addiction/damage.

Good luck for the future - genuinely.

If you are making a choice about every drink you have then you're not an addict, at least not in the strictest sense of the word 🤷🏼‍♀️

What on EARTH makes you think your experience is relevant to a discussion on the nature of addiction?

You're not an addict if this is true.

I don't actually think this, I think you are absolutely an addict and you're in denial/rationalising

Facebook groups, instagram, podcasts, quit lit. There is also an alcohol support and addiction support boards on here x

Yes, I agree. I’m overweight because I have trouble keeping my hand out of the biscuit tin. I got away with it pre menopause but not since. There’s no point bemoaning the fact that some folks are skinny and seem to be able to eat a fair bit - I have to accept that I’m not one of them and I have to accept that my portions have been too large and chocolate and biscuits every day is not a good idea.

Re impulse control - yes, I don’t go around slapping people and don’t drink much. Most days I don’t drink alcohol at all. I have got good control there, and I’ve never smoked. So drinking and gambling are not a problem for me at all. But if I’m stressed or angry or upset or annoyed with myself, the food noise is horrendous and it tests my self control to the limit.

I’m sorry OP but your belief that you’ll be able to moderate your drinking to just a little in time is a classic misconception for alcoholics - have one and you won’t be able to stop. Cutting it out completely is the only way; Maybe you’re not ready for that yet.

You are an addict in denial.

And no, an addict can not recover.

It requires work EVERY DAY.

People are powerless over their addiction.

They must choose to not take the first one, or eventually/not so eventually they will die.

If you don't like AA, try one of the other fellowships.

See what you think.

Don't leave before the miracle happens.

I think you have to look at genetics in your family and if you see people have addiction problems then maybe don’t ever drink, take drugs, gamble etc

I think it is extremely hard to say no to something if you are a teen surrounded by your peers all saying to partake in what they are doing

And it takes a lot of will power to then realise that things are getting out of control and to stop

Friends who have realised that the amount of alcohol they were drinking wasn’t good for them have cut down but they all found that doesn’t work and soon the amount crept up.

Cutting out and not down was the only thing that worked

Haven't RTFT but I like the philosophy of 'you don't have a drink/drug problem, you have a problem and you are using drink/drugs to try and solve that problem'.

Ref the soldiers who got addicted to heroin in Vietnam and didn't carry on using once they left the army.

I think there are two sides to this argument. I think your view is self empowering, it’s useful for motivation and self worth. But it could also leave you open to self loathing and pain if you have a slip. You have to be realistic we’re all human. You have to be compassionate to your self and loved ones….it’s difficult to be the family member of any kind of addict. Something in the human soul seeks some kind of medicine at times. Self treating emotional hurts, real physical pain or horrors in one’s past is a soul trying to cope. One doesn’t always have a healthy outlet and some people are presented with dire circumstances are traumatised and have completely lost hope. Biologically there’s a gene pool to consider and being aware of your responses and liklihoods gives you time to turn around and choose wisely, I don’t beat up on people who make the wrong choice but I feel for them. As a child it was harder. I always felt my father chose drink over us, when married I thought my husband chose drink over me and my little daughter, I felt that three times as that child, as a mother and as my little girl. Frustrated. But I felt for him too he’d had no help for a longtime, then suddenly it was over. My dad dealt with his demons as did my sister but I just felt it was all around us, and many times I was utterly lost emotionally. Trying to bring them to sense. I like the positivity of your approach and I want it to work for you, there is the disease process and dependency side of the process too though, the actual biochemical effects of the substance to deal with that makes choices much much harder. It might help you to read up about the clinical nature of addiction and why it’s not just down to choice, though as you heal choosing to be healthy is really positive. I wish you well, enjoyed your post.

Hmm. It's a weird one. In a sense we all have "choice" in a lot of things, but how free that "choice" really is depends on a whole range of other factors.

I do think that fundamentally addicts need to "choose" to get sober in order to do so - no one can do that for them - especially in the long term. And they'd then need to keep "choosing" sobriety, most actively to start with.

But, there are many things that go hand in hand with addiction that make that "choice" a lot more loaded. Psychological effects of addiction, sickness from physical addiction, comorbid mental illness, social pressure, trauma, multiple disadvantage - these things all make it less straightforward than "I'm choosing to be in active addiction".

However, acknowledging the extremely difficult and loaded choices needed to get clean, yes I do think in order to get sober you do need to make a "choice" to do so. And bloody hell well done anyone who does it!

This is about the way addicts tell ourselves we can "just have one" and "can stop any time we choose".

Those things are not true, we are not in charge of our substance/behaviour. We're powerless.

The only way to deal with it is to stop engaging. We can't negotiate with it.

Your OP reads a lot like someone in an abusive relationship explaining why she's still there and won't just leave. She could just leave, but she won't while she's telling everyone she knows what she's doing and doesn't want any support.

You know what, though? I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

I got sober not in AA, I actually had a massive trauma which sort of shocked me into sobriety. But before that I went to AA a few times. I don't think there's anything wrong with AA filling a gap that was created by addiction if you're not longer unhappy and struggling and potentially killing yourself. Although it depends on the group as I've also been to some cliquey ones

I think whatever works for you works and you should do it, doesn't matter if it's the "right" way to get sober. I'm not in AA but I will quote them saying take what you need and leave the rest

I have known quite a few people with addiction problems, including several in my extended family. The few who have got clean and continue to stay clean have only done so once they have accepted that they cannot ever casually enjoy their vices (ie. a couple of drinks, occasional drug taking) or indeed any other addictive substance. This is not the same as saying that they have no choice or responsibility for their actions- far from it, they accept that the responsibility but recognising that for them this means making the choice to totally abstain. To get to this point they have been through stages of denying their addictions and claiming that they could be clean/sober whenever they choose, several stages of claiming that they have been clean/sober for a while so can go back to casual use and in one case persuading themselves that they could swap one addictive substance for something slightly softer and be absolutely fine as a casual user.

Sadly several of the people I have known have lost their lives to their addictions, including people who always promised themselves they could give up whenever they decided it was the right time.

It’s absolutely a choice. Calling it anything other than that is disempowering. Yes there are powerful forces governing the choice ….. but it is a choice

Those I’ve known who made it into recovery and stayed there or are still there changed a lot of other things too. Changed friendship groups and never associated with former addict friends either. One guy used do amazing diy and carpentry (keeping busy) and others took up new pastimes and sports. I don’t care what they do to stay busy, I just felt heartfelt gratitude that they are still around. That I can enjoy their sober wisdom and enjoy the sense of humour. Taking what you need is a great phrase…

I take your point on board but I'd imagine it's caused by trauma rather than alcohol. However I'm happy to concede that substances won't be helping!

Thank you - appreciate it 🙂

I think the point is though that if you never had the first one then you would never be in a situation where it might get out of hand/all bets are off.

Personally I find it way easier to never drink at all than to deal with the endless negotiation with self/feelings shit when I drank too often or too much.

It's not necessarily that you turn into an unstoppable drink and drugs machine as soon as you wet the whistle (although I might!), if you simply never have one you never have to worry about that. It's way easier.

"I'm selfish"/"I have poor impulse control" doesn't seem terribly far away from "I have a condition that drives me to drink" to me.

And "I could stop drinking if I wanted to, I just don't want to" doesn't seem terribly far away from "I can't seem to stop drinking" either.

It's acknowledging that it's my selfishness and impulsivity that is leading to my choices that I make. Because I am choosing to do it. If I can recognise these character flaws I'll hopefully have a good chance of addressing them. Alcohol is by far not the only self destructive behaviour I have a problem with, but I'm getting to realise that I'm the issue, it's not something I "can't help".

It's only very recently I could even acknowledge that I had an issue. I genuinely think I will be able to recover one day. Maybe I'm wrong but I need to believe it - I need to try harder and when my life has more in it that isn't shit, maybe I'll want it enough.