Telling people they're powerless over alcohol/substances is dangerous

[FlyingMasticatedParticles]

Had a conversation with a friend recently (not an addict) where they got upset with me for saying that it's always a choice to use substances. I believe it is, while acknowledging the huge difficulty people face getting out of these habits.

Others are of the opinion that it isn't a choice and that it's not in the person's control. I think this view is completely disempowering, and possibly dangerous.

I speak from experience of poly-substance 'addiction' which I'm currently in. I make the choice to buy drugs and have a drink. It's easier than dealing with the underlying issues. Let's face it, it's the easy, familiar, comforting choice. It's very hard and humbling to admit that I just don't like being sober and facing reality.

Luckily I only hurt myself, however sometimes it's pretty bad and the shame that I feel afterwards is really justified (while also understanding that I'm human and allowing for a bit of self-compassion which I'm working on). If i was to accept that these actions were not my own responsibility, then I'd be even less likely to try and keep myself in check.

I'm starting to realise it's all on me, I can't make excuses because I know what I'm doing to myself and I do it anyway. I refuse to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. I have a lot of underlying trauma and mental health issues, a lot of character defects that have led me to this. Those things are not my fault but I made and continue to make shitty choices.

If I believed what AA told me, I'd believe I had an 'allergy' or that I'm just different to other people and I don't have power over it. I've friends who are terrified to miss a meeting because they've been told so many times that AA is what's keeping them sober. I think they WANT to be sober so they're abstaining and it's as simple as that, although of course a support network is always helpful.

AIBU to think that it's better to encourage self responsibility and accountability than helplessness?

Not everyone in your position is happy with the powerless/higher power thing. Like I said it’s not for everyone. For some people it works though.

No, I hear you. I'm glad it works for some people. I do think it can harm some as well, especially those who are very vulnerable.

It's not necessarily a helpful phrase for everyone- lots of people don't get on with AA so feel free to ignore it if it's not for you- but if you think the message they are trying to convey is "it's not your fault and there's nothing you can do" then that is your misunderstanding. It is the opposite- that the person can take control of their life by recognising their addiction.

I suspect a lot of people find "I can but choose not to" a more comforting thought than "I can't", but the outcome is the same. Again, maybe not you.

I do absolutely believe in addiction, and addictions are a bastard to recover from, but I do also believe addicts can choose to engage in recovery. Some choose not to. My brother chose to go to rehab when he was ready.

Do you mind me asking if you used any other resources? I'm really enjoying SMART - it's helpful for all kinds of self-destructive behaviours and thought patterns.

Oddly I watched a YouTube video yesterday by a recovering addict and he mentioned this. He said he hated the step when he first heard it, but then he understood it. He said the only choice he has is whether to have the first drink/line/smoke. After that, he is powerless, because he is an addict. He can't 'just have one' or 'just drink socially'. That's where the powerlessness lies and also where the personal responsibility fits in.

"I can stop if I want to" is a very common thing for an addict to say.

Fair enough, I take your point on board. I do enjoy aspects of it, and I'll still go because it's a decent enough way to spend my evening. However there's just a lot that seems off to me and I've noticed that they all start to speak in slogans after a while which is a bit odd 😬 but mostly the people are nice.

I 100% believe I'll recover when I want to. It took me a long time to even recognise it was a problem. Trying to add more things to my life to give me a reason to want to recover. Managing to cut down a bit so that's a start. I hope your brother made a full recovery 😁

@FlyingMasticatedParticles So you are just here to have a go at AA? Just because you disagree with it,the reality is you still want to be an addict.

I have been sober in AA for 22years,NOTHING else worked for me.I once stopped drinking for 3 years without AA,but then drank again.

Most people that run AA down and say they stopped drinking another way have short term sobriety,which is anything under 7 years,they will eventually drink again,that is a fact.

Instead of running other people’s choices down work on your own recovery,you sound as if you need to.Just work on yourself and let others do what suits them.

This is where I have the issue, because I can and have just had one, or drank socially. I think this is just another excuse.

Frequently I make a choice on the spot to take it way too far and all bets are off. But it is still a choice. Maybe not after a certain amount however I've a ridiculously high tolerance so it takes a lot for me to be unaware of my own actions.

This is just my opinion, no offence intended.

I mean, I haven't tried yet so I don't know if it's true, but I believe that I will recover.

Not at all. Glad it worked for you. I know that AA proponents don't like it when you criticise AA so I was waiting for this.

It's not the only way, nor the most successful. Best of luck to you though. And yeah, I do need to work on my recovery. Not denying that!

Huge, huge fan of AA here, without it god knows what my life would be like today, and that of my DCs.

I hope you find something that works for you OP

But you have poor impulse control because of the alcohol. The “fuck it” button is your brain telling you it needs alcohol because the alcohol has changed the way your brain functions. I’m currently sober after developing a problem and I’ve been researching lots of academic/scientific literature about what alcohol does to the brain and it explains why people can crave alcohol even months after being AF. I mean, who has poor impulse control around spinach or water? It’s always booze/drugs/sugar/junk food as these are the things that are designed to get us addicted (although Some people’s genetic make up and the ways in which genes are expressed make them more prone to addiction).

I’m not a fan of AA for various reasons but as PPs have said, the “powerlessness” aspect means a line into addiction has been crossed and people are unlikely to have control over alcohol long term. Most will relapse badly at some if they drink again.

I think you are kidding yourself on if you think you are “choosing” to drink. It’s much more likely that your addicted brain is telling you it needs its fix.

You haven't tried stopping and yet say you can stop if you want to? oooooookay

It’s the basic premise of AA which has worked for millions of people, but it’s not just that, there’s more to it with the 12 steps.

I think you have misunderstood the message too.

You admit you are powerless, not helpless. It's the most empowering thing I've ever done and it is ALL about personal responsibility.

AA is not for everyone and that's OK but it has helped many people and it's always disheartening to hear an addict try to dissuade other people from giving it a go when the stakes are so high. I would never start a thread talking about the number of people who have tried many other methods and still ended up in the rooms of AA.

Alcoholism destroys lives and families. If you are affected then keep an open mind about solutions. It doesn't matter what method you use if it works. If it works you are winning and I'm pleased for you.

I kept going to meetings because it works for me and I have no intention of gambling the lovely life I have now to pretend I'm cured. I'm not cured but I can have lifelong recovery.

I think recovery is a state of being that requires work every day and that ‘recovered’ as a completed act isn’t possible. I say this as someone working with people dealing with, and in recovery from eating disorders. The behaviours may cease but the thoughts and emotional responses which had previously driven the behaviours remain to a greater or lesser degree depending on a whole range of factors. It’s a fact that one missed meal can trigger a relapse years down the line.

I agree that individual choice and autonomy is key to change, but it can take a really long time to bring hopeless, desperate people to a place where they can take responsibility for themselves each and every day for the rest of their lives. Because that's what being in recovery means.

YANBU OP. I have self control and I'm not addicted to anything. I drink very very occasionally.

Yes I've tried a "drag" from a cigarette once or twice, but I didn't enjoy it and felt no need to do it again.

If it works for you, great. Do you still go to meetings?

No, I have poor impulse control because I have poor impulse control. I might get an impulse to punch people in the face but I don't do it. I'm definitely choosing to drink. I get what you're saying it might be harder for me than someone else to say no but it doesn't mean I need to do it. It's just an easy way to excuse my own behaviour.

Addicts have a choice but substances and addiction change your brain in a way that prevents you being able to make that choice rationally.

It is also your choice to take substances in the first place, but with alcohol for example, ten people can drink exactly the same amount and only one becomes addicted. It's often not possible to know if it will be you and alcohol is a widely accepted and encouraged social activity.

I know what you mean.
It's a keystone in AA/NA which do work for some folks. I'm not crazy on it but won't diss people who follow it.

I don’t think this is aimed at people like you somehow…