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Lucy Letby.....she might actually be innocent?!

1000 replies

Dramatic · 04/02/2025 21:06

I have just watched the full press conference and I'm blown away. There seems to be no actual evidence AT ALL that she killed or injured those babies. This could be one of the biggest miscarriages of justice there has ever been in this country.

OP posts:
Xmasxrackers · 05/02/2025 12:02

summerlovingvibes · 05/02/2025 10:46

With regards to things like adding insulin to IV lines - it doesn't always have an immediate effect - it depends on the quantity and how quickly it is added. So there may have been things done on shift which didn't result in a death until hours / days later. Just because she wasn't physically in the building doesn't mean that she didn't do it.

But we have heard how she enjoyed to be there, so why would she do that knowing she wouldn’t be there to get involved?

LiveintheSlowLane · 05/02/2025 12:03

soupyspoon · 04/02/2025 21:54

Is she and how is that relevant if so?

It could explain her intense behaviour, and looking up families on Facebook, if it's true

SickTiredNotRich · 05/02/2025 12:06

JandamiHash · 04/02/2025 21:08

Hard disagree. I followed the trial very closely. She is guilty.

I really do think people’s mindset rests on her looks an ethnicity. If Lucy Letby was a black woman or fat or unattractive, nobody would be protesting her innocence

I think that’s rubbish.

I didn’t follow the trial, but a retrial if the verdict is felt unsafe seems the best option

GabriellaMontez · 05/02/2025 12:07

prh47bridge · 05/02/2025 11:47

They did review the case files. The "notes" were the evidence that was supplied to the defence by the prosecution, i.e. the case files. If they had not seen the case files, they would not be able to submit their report to the CCRC.

Thanks for clarifying this.

BeAzureAnt · 05/02/2025 12:10

Bunnycat101 · 05/02/2025 11:55

There are a range of possibilities here- all are pretty terrible

  1. she is innocent and subject to a grave miscarriage of justice.

  2. She contributed to the babies’ deaths through negligence as part of wider system failures but didn’t seek to murder them.

  3. she was guilty but the evidence is not strong enough to prove it.

You have to take the expert panel’s view on this. If you look at the degree of experience, expertise and their take on the evidence, they have not found medical evidence of murder. Given the implications of misinterpreting the evidence, it seems odd that this sort of exercise wasn’t done during the trial.

There’s no good outcome for anyone at this point. If she is innocent, her life has been ruined and she’ll always be subject to a witch hunt re her behaviour. I thought it was telling that one of the doctors said the hospital would have been shut down in Canada.

Indeed.

I'm really not sure her demeanour in court matters that much. This is the Guardian interpretation here
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/feb/04/lucy-letby-convictions-what-did-the-expert-panel-find

In summarising their findings, the panel flagged more than a dozen problems that were likely to have contributed to the babies’ deaths. These ranged from failures in diagnosing disease, poor skills in basic medical procedures such as inserting chest tubes, poor management of common neonatal conditions like low blood sugar and a disregard for warnings about infections.
“There was no medical evidence to support malfeasance causing death or injury in any of the 17 cases in the trial,” the report concludes. “Death or injury of affected infants were due to natural causes or errors in medical care.”

If this is true it is a very grave miscarriage of justice, and Letby has been a scapegoat for systematic failures at the hospital. And if you think about it, who better to blame...a young woman who self blames for something she didn't do and who fawns? That makes it easy, doesn't it?

But really, what if what was to blame was the standard of care at the clinics? I'm thinking about the compensation numbers to the families here, the doctors who would be sanctioned, etc.

Upthread, someone mentioned Private Eye and MD's article. Definitely worth reading.

Stresshead84x · 05/02/2025 12:10

Coolasfeck · 05/02/2025 11:42

The PP who was there for the entirety of the two trials stated Letby came across as a harridan in court. The trial wasn’t televised and the general public only saw the odd pic of her smiling, looking a bit bewildered during arrest or surrounded by teddy bears. The press never really went under the bonnet of who she is.

People in court daily would have seen a more holistic picture and PP said Letby did not come across as an innocent fawn surrounded by teddies in court.

I can believe this. It takes a very calculated, controlling, spiteful and angry person to murder babies. She got away with it for so long because she was good at the Bambie shtick.

I'm a very quiet person, I'm sure I'd be described as meek.

In circumstances like this though, if I'd been accused and was innocent I'd be angry, I'd be tripping over myself to try and prove my innocence, I'm probably com across as cold and controlled because I'm shy and don't show emotion easily. I can't and won't judge her on this.

I followed both trials closely and I was never convinced, I always suspected this was a scapegoat situation with poor science and statistics used with a jury who weren't medical specialists but I'm open minded and followed both sides.

A lot of people who were following and on the fence were swayed eventually by the insulin cases- these were the ones that were almost impossible to explain but they never sat right with me, for one of them she wasn't even on shift when the bag was changed if I remember right? and now it looks like the insulin readings have been called into question.

I can't say 100% shes innocent but I really think she may be and it's just a horrible situation all round.

Cerial · 05/02/2025 12:11

Loveumagenta · 05/02/2025 11:44

I think I’ll stick with listening to what the medically experts have to say over whether or not a woman was angry or not at being falsely accused or shows enough meekness or whatever other nonsense the armchair experts are going on.

I’ll stick with the jury decision as opposed to the 14 experts who wade in after two trials and decide to give opinions without being tested /cross examined or sworn.

Totally different scenarios ….

  1. Expert witness in court, exact opinion tested by prosecution and weighed by jury vs total trial
  2. Press conference where get to say what want, not get asked the probing questions like “while it’s possible Dr NZ, that the insulin was naturally occurring, have you experienced this in your work experience? How often, age of baby, amount of, weight of baby, exactly same circumstance etc etc “ Was this replicated? How many times? “based on your experiences in NZ, is it possible that LL introduced the insulin at nhsCC?” Etc
Coolasfeck · 05/02/2025 12:11

The poor victims families knowing many people are more concerned about their babies murderer than them.

She was convicted in court by jury after a 10 month trial with tons of evidence.

Stresshead84x · 05/02/2025 12:13

Coolasfeck · 05/02/2025 12:11

The poor victims families knowing many people are more concerned about their babies murderer than them.

She was convicted in court by jury after a 10 month trial with tons of evidence.

People are concerned about the babies, and concerned about future babies if this whole thing is due to an underfunded NHS who have messed up rather than one person who murdered them.

Catpuss66 · 05/02/2025 12:13

Oftenaddled · 05/02/2025 11:32

Yes, no problem.

On this thread, we are discussing the people on yesterday's panel. The British panel member I am referring to is:

Professor Nina Modi
Professor of Neonatal Medicine at Imperial College, London
Honorary Consultant to Chelsea and Westminster NHS Foundation Trust
President of European Association of Perinatal Medicine
Former President of Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health in UK

Not sure she is actually listed on GMC as she is Honorary Consultant to the NHS, more of an academic role rather than clinical. It is possible that I am wrong & she is really risking her career if she is & for that we thank her. This is the case that has scared medics into giving evidence for the defence.

www.thejusticegap.com/doctor-struck-off-challenging-shaken-baby-syndrome-begins-fight-back/

3tumsnot1 · 05/02/2025 12:13

Worldinyourhands · 05/02/2025 09:38

The cherry picking theory again... you do know she was on shift for 12 of the 13 deaths right - not just the ones she was tried for? They didn't try some of the others for whatever reason. Possibly other causes of death or not strong enough evidence. But just because the other ones weren't tried doesn't mean she wasn't there.

Yes of course she was there for 12 of the 13, that’s why they selected this particular deaths because she was there. You should watch the 2 hour update on youtube, from the independent international panel of experts, who reviewed all evidence independently and impartially - without being commissioned or paid by either side. Their conclusion - no evidence whatsoever. If you don’t have time at least tune in from 1hr in when he goes through the reasons. ‘ death or injury in all cases due to natural causes or just bad medical care. We did not find any murders’.

MotionIntheOcean · 05/02/2025 12:13

Coolasfeck · 05/02/2025 12:11

The poor victims families knowing many people are more concerned about their babies murderer than them.

She was convicted in court by jury after a 10 month trial with tons of evidence.

People really need to stop trying to speak for the welfare of the victims families. You don't know what they think, nor do you have any right to, and they're not a hivemind.

OvaHere · 05/02/2025 12:14

It seems like the biggest issue with this case is not whether the circumstantial evidence met the burden of proof or not but is actually whether there was any murders in the first place.

There seems to be a lot of disagreement in the medical community about this and it's the primary thing that needs to be fully established.

Worldinyourhands · 05/02/2025 12:16

WishinAndHopin · 05/02/2025 10:53

I actually attended both her trials and saw her on the stand (she’s an absolute harridan, by the way).

The evidence against her was overwhelming, detailed and complex. So much more was said in real life than ever made it into the reporting.

For example, the population charts, nursing notes, timed computer records, and eyewitness statements proving where everybody was in that ward at a given time were so complex. It proved that Letby was not merely on shift, but present with a baby for every single charge.

The medical evidence was also very detailed which was missed in live reporting. Every natural alternative cause was considered and thoroughly dismissed.

Her new defence have not brought out anything new. She will not get an appeal. She needs actual new evidence for that. Everything they claim in their report has already been considered and dismissed by the actual medical experts.

Firstly, these self-appointed experts have reviewed nothing, except the opinions of other self-appointed experts who themselves have no access to the evidence, did not attend or follow the trial, and whose own opinions were based on sensationalist media headlines. Her defence have collected some of these opinions of opinions and given them to a bunch of egotistical, unethical doctors to “review”, ie give their fourth hand opinion on.

They don’t even seem to know basic facts. For example the “new evidence” that Letby didn’t switch off the monitor for Baby K/ Baby 11, is based on them learning that another nurse entered the room after the collapse and heard the alarm. If they’d actually followed the trial they would know that Letby was not accused of turning the monitor off, but pausing the alarm for 30-60 seconds. The nurse heard the alarm because it was no longer paused by then. This was not controversial with either the prosecution nor the original defense.

I note that for babies A, D and O, who they deny suffered from air embolus, they have completely ignored the presence of massive amounts of air found in their blood vessels for A and D (including at the IV entry site) and the air bubble in O’s heart.

They claim O died of liver rupture not by blunt force abdominal trauma, but due to birth injury. This is despite him being alive and very well for several days before Letby got back from her Ibiza holiday. “I’ll be back with a bang” she said.

A reminder that Letby did have her own medical experts, but every single one of them agreed with the prosecution experts, with one expert (Michael Hall) agreeing partially. In this country, medical experts’ duties are to the court; they must tell the truth and not take sides, no matter who appoints them. It’s not America.

Letby herself opted to not bring to the stand her only expert who partially disagreed with the prosecution. This is because he had no alternative explanations and would have been ripped to shreds under cross examination, and been forced to admit where he did agree with the prosecution.

Also, Letby had a retrial in June last year, and had the opportunity to dispute her previous convictions with medical evidence, but she declined to do so, evidently because she didn’t want another jury hearing the actual evidence.

Letby’s new barrister Mark McDonald is attempting an American style PR campaign, but our courts don’t work like that. This publicity stunt will actually harm her chances for all the future charges being worked on by Operation Hummingbird, because Letby’s only hope would have been to claim she couldn’t have a fair trial. There’s no hope of that now.

Mark McDonald is a notorious grifter who attaches himself to hopeless serial killers for attention, for example with Ben Geen. He states they are innocent, the media publish his lies, then he finally puts in a shit tier CCRC application which is laughed out of court, then he drops them and moves onto a new serial killer. It’s what he does. This is likely why Letby has not waived client privilege for him (meaning he doesn’t have access to the evidence, either), because she wants a proper KC for actual court cases.

She’s just engaging with him because she knows her case is hopeless and she wants the positive PR to make her life easier in jail. She has nothing else to hope for except improving her reputation.

As for Shoo Lee, his evidence was rejected by the court of appeal. This is because 1) the prosecution experts didn’t actually base their diagnoses on skin discolourations, it was a small part of a wider picture, and 2) his claim that only one type of skin discolouration is diagnostic of air embolism was based on just two babies in his study, and 3) two of Letby’s victims did actually fit his particular diagnostic description but Lee was pettily arguing the toss about this based on semantics.

He has now rewritten his entire paper to be favourable to Letby , paid to have it published, and it has not been peer reviewed. He is a disgrace.

Amazing post - thank you.

Eraclea · 05/02/2025 12:17

Coolasfeck · 05/02/2025 12:11

The poor victims families knowing many people are more concerned about their babies murderer than them.

She was convicted in court by jury after a 10 month trial with tons of evidence.

Did you think about all the proven miscarriages of justices at all when you typed this out?

Should the convicted individuals have remained in prison so as not to give the impression they matter as much as or more than the victims of whatever crime they didn’t commit?

Worldinyourhands · 05/02/2025 12:17

MotionIntheOcean · 05/02/2025 12:13

People really need to stop trying to speak for the welfare of the victims families. You don't know what they think, nor do you have any right to, and they're not a hivemind.

Actually they've been very clear and public about what they think.

MotionIntheOcean · 05/02/2025 12:17

Worldinyourhands · 05/02/2025 12:17

Actually they've been very clear and public about what they think.

What, every single one of them since this latest development? Link please.

Coolasfeck · 05/02/2025 12:19

This is why I don’t watch those Netflix murder sensationalist ‘documentaries’ . It’s encouraged many people to see themselves as internet sleuths.

Worldinyourhands · 05/02/2025 12:20

3tumsnot1 · 05/02/2025 12:13

Yes of course she was there for 12 of the 13, that’s why they selected this particular deaths because she was there. You should watch the 2 hour update on youtube, from the independent international panel of experts, who reviewed all evidence independently and impartially - without being commissioned or paid by either side. Their conclusion - no evidence whatsoever. If you don’t have time at least tune in from 1hr in when he goes through the reasons. ‘ death or injury in all cases due to natural causes or just bad medical care. We did not find any murders’.

No, you're misunderstanding. I'm not talking about all the cases (murders and attempted murders). I'm talking about all the deaths. Just because they only tried some doesn't mean she wasn't there for basically all of them.

BeAzureAnt · 05/02/2025 12:22

OvaHere · 05/02/2025 12:14

It seems like the biggest issue with this case is not whether the circumstantial evidence met the burden of proof or not but is actually whether there was any murders in the first place.

There seems to be a lot of disagreement in the medical community about this and it's the primary thing that needs to be fully established.

Yes, absolutely. And the expert panel is working pro bono. I don't think they are saying what they are say to grift, but rather out of professional concern.

From the BBC today:
"The Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC), which investigates potential miscarriages of justice, has started to assess her case which is said to involve a "significant volume of complicated evidence".
The independent body said it was not possible at present to determine how long it will take to review the application from Letby's legal team."

That's the way.

pinkfondu · 05/02/2025 12:28

Why would those docs put themselves out there if it's not a possibility- it can only be the fear it could happen to any of them

Worldinyourhands · 05/02/2025 12:30

Honestly I think they believe what they're saying, but don't seem to have much awareness of what was already heard and discredited during the very thorough 10 month trial. This is why it'll get thrown out at CCRC - because they'll be able to see that these theories were all tried in the extremely high profile and in-depth criminal case.

Locutus2000 · 05/02/2025 12:32

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 05/02/2025 11:22

I would love to know what aspect of Lucy Letby’s behaviour in court would lead to someone calling her a ‘harridan’. It’s such a weird, misogynist term.

It is very strange language to use.

Worldinyourhands · 05/02/2025 12:34

She was deeply unpleasant in court, whatever word you use for it. I suspect she's a very unpleasant character. It seemed to be what a lot of her colleagues were saying.

Worldinyourhands · 05/02/2025 12:34

It's not going anywhere - a vast amount of evidence has been heard and accepted by both legal teams already. It's all very solid and clear and safe. It shows exactly what the murderer Lucy Letby did to those poor defenceless babies. The CCRC are enormously likely to throw out this (lack of) 'new evidence' like they've thrown out almost all of this lawyer's mickey mouse cases. Then hopefully the parents of these poor babies can get some peace from this nonsense in some small way. Certainly I have no doubt that Lucy Letby will remain in jail - where she 100% belongs.

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