Page 20 | Lucy Letby.....she might actually be innocent?!

Dramatic · 2025-02-04T21:06:51+00:00

I have just watched the full press conference and I'm blown away. There seems to be no actual evidence AT ALL that she killed or injured those babies. This could be one of the biggest miscarriages of justice there has ever been in this country.

wipeywipe · 04/02/2025 23:30

Not sure why so many people are bending over backwards to defend her when at best she is guilty of medical negligence.

But that is different to murder, you understand that?!

Avocando · 04/02/2025 23:30

Dramatic · 04/02/2025 23:20

But people do this stuff all the time, I can think of several people who have told me things they shouldn't about people. You can bet tons of nurses have searched patients on FB

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Doesn’t make it ok just because people have done it.

I have never. I would be really appalled if anyone I know admitted to it.

There is so much data protection in healthcare, for good reason. Eg, we can only see data from your encounters at our hospital. If I needed your results from another hospital they would need to be requested and sent over.

I am also a patient at the hospital I work at. I’m not allowed to look at my own records. I can’t ask my colleagues to look up my results because that’s not our department. I am not allowed to look up my family members, even with their permission. Is it tempting? Sometimes yes. But I don’t do it because I am an adult and know better. There are lots of things in life that are tempting but you don’t do them because of morals.

I know the NHS is in a poor state at the moment but believe it or not most people working there do actually have morals and respect for their patients.

user243245346 · 04/02/2025 23:30

BoredZelda · 04/02/2025 23:28

Generally everything said at a trial can be openly reported unless the judge says otherwise (which is very unusual). It's not the case that evidence about insulin was not reported

I never said it wasn't reported. I was giving an example of how journalists can report on a case, within the bounds of contempt, and still cherry pick to make the best story.

They will write what will get people's attention. They aren't going to focus their report on 3 hours of dry testimony about something that the majority people won't understand, over the dramatic event that drew a gasp from the public gallery.

Yes - I see what you mean. They do spin a narrative and usually a negative one on the accused

Oftenaddled · 04/02/2025 23:31

JandamiHash · 04/02/2025 23:29

What witnesses??

You don’t know how trials work if you think the prosecution is allowed to blindside the defence

What do you mean Evans changed mid stream? Did he originally back Letby’s innocence?

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The witnesses you asked about! Why Letby didn't have the experts on the panel as witnesses.

Look up the trial. Even the judge recognized that Evans blindsided the defence.

SpiritAdder · 04/02/2025 23:31

Briannaco · 04/02/2025 23:23

Yes but companies have their own privacy rules in their contracts.

Contracts say things like " you must not use customer information for personal use outside of the workplace"

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Yes, but “customer information” doesn’t refer to publicly available info on FB. It refers in a hospital setting to medical records, it refers in a banking setting to financial records.

thiswilloutme · 04/02/2025 23:32

JandamiHash · 04/02/2025 23:08

And yet they aren’t considered expert enough to be expert witnesses or have anyone other than Letby’s defence team give them a platform.

Let’s be clear - this is not an inquiry or select committee. These are self appointed people supported by very rich lawyers with a vested interested in remaining high profile.

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nope - they've done this for free. Asked to review the cases by Dr Lee - the person whose work was so misrepresented by the prosecution that he wanted to investigate further.

Supersimkin7 · 04/02/2025 23:32

Our choices are:

LL innocent
LL guilty
Shit hospital
Babies so premature there’s not much science to help for a trial
Statistics wrongly used at trial
Nasty bullying doctors
Babies so prem some NICU death inevitable
Diary confession was exercise/fake
Expert evidence wrongly used at trial
LL white and therefore thought innocent regardless by some public.

They’re all valid. No need to choose - they call be, and are, true of the LL trial.

Except 1 or 2. We’re no farther on. Or are we?

Today’s press conf features some very, very clever people with no axe to grind who have a better understanding of the expert evidence than we can. They are the experts of experts.

They say the evidence that convicted Letby of each murder is medical bollocks. And explain why.

They say 1. LL innocent.

JandamiHash · 04/02/2025 23:32

BoredZelda · 04/02/2025 23:28

Generally everything said at a trial can be openly reported unless the judge says otherwise (which is very unusual). It's not the case that evidence about insulin was not reported

I never said it wasn't reported. I was giving an example of how journalists can report on a case, within the bounds of contempt, and still cherry pick to make the best story.

They will write what will get people's attention. They aren't going to focus their report on 3 hours of dry testimony about something that the majority people won't understand, over the dramatic event that drew a gasp from the public gallery.

With respect you’re wrong. The trial was reported on as it happened.

I think some people think it’s too biased towards the prosecution but actually what happens in English trials is the prosecution goes first. So if that’s what’s reported - because that’s all that CAN be reported at the time - people whine about a media bias

The “boundaries of contempt” couldn’t be tighter. You can report anything other than what was said. Absolutely no opinions on the trial, objective reporting only.

Firefly1987 · 04/02/2025 23:32

DressOrSkirt · 04/02/2025 23:07

I don't understand this, why would a therapist advise her to write down that she'd killed the babies she was being accused of killing? How would this help her if she's innocent?

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Exactly. Why would she write "I killed them on purpose" unless she did? As if her being asked to write down stuff by a therapist changes anything at all. I can totally understand being innocent yet thinking something is your fault, but not writing you did it on purpose. That's intent, that's not accidental or negligence.

JandamiHash · 04/02/2025 23:33

thiswilloutme · 04/02/2025 23:32

nope - they've done this for free. Asked to review the cases by Dr Lee - the person whose work was so misrepresented by the prosecution that he wanted to investigate further.

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I’m talking about the expert witnesses who give evidence in court

Mirabai · 04/02/2025 23:33

Ginnyweasleyswand · 04/02/2025 23:29

It may well be she is guilty of medical negligence, as others on that ward may also be guilty. Or perhaps the medical negligence was in understaffing and underqualified staff being left to deal with difficult situations where they did not respond appropriately.

But that's a really far cry from being solely guilty of murder of all those babies.

One of the Canadian doctors said that the NICU would have been shut down in Canada with so many failings. It's unbelievable they had raw sewage in the NICU yet it remained open. Seems fairly obvious to me raw sewage poses a huge infection risk to such poorly babies.

None of the doctors on the panel referenced LL wrt medical negligence. They were pretty scathing about some of the doctors though.

wipeywipe · 04/02/2025 23:33

She also took pictures of the sympathy cards she gave to the parents of the babies she murdered and kept them on her phone.

Again there could be a number of reasons for this before you jump to murderer.

SpiritAdder · 04/02/2025 23:33

Avocando · 04/02/2025 23:30

Doesn’t make it ok just because people have done it.

I have never. I would be really appalled if anyone I know admitted to it.

There is so much data protection in healthcare, for good reason. Eg, we can only see data from your encounters at our hospital. If I needed your results from another hospital they would need to be requested and sent over.

I am also a patient at the hospital I work at. I’m not allowed to look at my own records. I can’t ask my colleagues to look up my results because that’s not our department. I am not allowed to look up my family members, even with their permission. Is it tempting? Sometimes yes. But I don’t do it because I am an adult and know better. There are lots of things in life that are tempting but you don’t do them because of morals.

I know the NHS is in a poor state at the moment but believe it or not most people working there do actually have morals and respect for their patients.

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Again you are referring to medical records. These are nothing like publicly available information published for all the world to see on FB.

thiswilloutme · 04/02/2025 23:34

Oftenaddled · 04/02/2025 23:31

The witnesses you asked about! Why Letby didn't have the experts on the panel as witnesses.

Look up the trial. Even the judge recognized that Evans blindsided the defence.

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because she didn't;t know they existed and her original defence team did a crap job. This new team contacted the expert whose work the prosecution used to convince the jury she was guilty. Dr Shoo Lee. When he saw how his work was misrepresented he came over to speak at the appeal, but was not given permission to do so.

He then convened the panel of experts.

All for free.

Original poster

Dramatic · 04/02/2025 23:34

Avocando · 04/02/2025 23:30

Doesn’t make it ok just because people have done it.

I have never. I would be really appalled if anyone I know admitted to it.

There is so much data protection in healthcare, for good reason. Eg, we can only see data from your encounters at our hospital. If I needed your results from another hospital they would need to be requested and sent over.

I am also a patient at the hospital I work at. I’m not allowed to look at my own records. I can’t ask my colleagues to look up my results because that’s not our department. I am not allowed to look up my family members, even with their permission. Is it tempting? Sometimes yes. But I don’t do it because I am an adult and know better. There are lots of things in life that are tempting but you don’t do them because of morals.

I know the NHS is in a poor state at the moment but believe it or not most people working there do actually have morals and respect for their patients.

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I imagine you don't know it goes on because people around you realise you are the kind of person who wouldn't do it and would be appalled at it (not that I'm saying that's a bad way to be at all) but I feel like you'd be shocked at what people do with information they shouldn't be sharing.

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JandamiHash · 04/02/2025 23:34

Oftenaddled · 04/02/2025 23:31

The witnesses you asked about! Why Letby didn't have the experts on the panel as witnesses.

Look up the trial. Even the judge recognized that Evans blindsided the defence.

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Do you mean the people at the press conference? They aren’t witnesses.

How did Evans blindside the defence? And what did the judge say? I can’t find evidence to support this

JandamiHash · 04/02/2025 23:35

wipeywipe · 04/02/2025 23:33

She also took pictures of the sympathy cards she gave to the parents of the babies she murdered and kept them on her phone.

Again there could be a number of reasons for this before you jump to murderer.

In the context of other factors this is a red flag

SpiritAdder · 04/02/2025 23:35

Firefly1987 · 04/02/2025 23:32

Exactly. Why would she write "I killed them on purpose" unless she did? As if her being asked to write down stuff by a therapist changes anything at all. I can totally understand being innocent yet thinking something is your fault, but not writing you did it on purpose. That's intent, that's not accidental or negligence.

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Thats a phrase taken out of context.

BoredZelda · 04/02/2025 23:36

Yes I meant patients or patient's families.

It's the same

Is it, though? Looking at my local NHS trust policy on the matter it says you can't "follow" patients or their carers (note: not "families") or join networks or discussions with them or send/respond to DMs from them. It doesn't state you can't look them up.

Original poster

Dramatic · 04/02/2025 23:36

thiswilloutme · 04/02/2025 23:34

because she didn't;t know they existed and her original defence team did a crap job. This new team contacted the expert whose work the prosecution used to convince the jury she was guilty. Dr Shoo Lee. When he saw how his work was misrepresented he came over to speak at the appeal, but was not given permission to do so.

He then convened the panel of experts.

All for free.

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Also I'd imagine the defence didn't contact Shoo Lee, for example, because they genuinely thought his paper confirmed what the prosecution were saying, they probably had no idea that it actually didn't.

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user243245346 · 04/02/2025 23:36

@Avocando - it is not at all prohibited by data protection law to look someone up on Facebook. Nor is it unethical. If it's on an open Facebook page then anyone can look it up.

Re actual medical information, You shouldn't be unnecessarily accessing medical data but if you are treating a patient their information should be complete (ie include information not just from your hospital). If your records are incomplete this could be a data protection issue and also a negligence issue. It's concerning that the NHS still doesn't have decent records

Mirabai · 04/02/2025 23:36

JandamiHash · 04/02/2025 23:27

Well she murdered babies. Pretty negligent in my book

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Well yes but you’ve no idea what you’re talking about.

JandamiHash · 04/02/2025 23:36

SpiritAdder · 04/02/2025 23:35

Thats a phrase taken out of context.

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According to who? The child killer?

Personally I don’t tend to believe the lies of child killers so I’m leaning more towards it being a confession note

JandamiHash · 04/02/2025 23:37

Mirabai · 04/02/2025 23:36

Well yes but you’ve no idea what you’re talking about.

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And you do? Were you on the jury?

wipeywipe · 04/02/2025 23:37

In the context of other factors this is a red flag

Again red flags do not only mean murder...