Page 19 | Lucy Letby.....she might actually be innocent?!

user243245346 · 04/02/2025 23:23

"Expert witnesses support defence teams all the time. Including for rape and murder

Perhaps her team couldn’t find any because actually what she did was indefensible"

@JandamiHash

She may not have done anything. The babies may have died of natural causes as initially determined and as assessed by the experts at the press conference

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 04/02/2025 23:23

JandamiHash · 04/02/2025 23:20

Well it is a fact because none of them were called as expert witnesses. Why do you think that is?

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Same reason no others were called and none of us know what that is, but I can tell you with certainty it’s not that they lacked expertise, what with them being the most senior neonatologists in the world 🙄

Oftenaddled · 04/02/2025 23:23

JandamiHash · 04/02/2025 23:20

Well it is a fact because none of them were called as expert witnesses. Why do you think that is?

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That lot would have cost more than Letby's defence budget. They don't all do legal work normally. The defence could not anticipate how dishonest and nonsensical the prosecution's claims would be.

You don't hire these people by the hour on LinkedIn. They responded to the fact that the courts findings were absurd. Nobody could have predicted that before the trial.

Briannaco · 04/02/2025 23:23

SpiritAdder · 04/02/2025 23:22

No privacy law protects information you put out on FB as open to the public. HTH.

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Yes but companies have their own privacy rules in their contracts.

Contracts say things like " you must not use customer information for personal use outside of the workplace"

SpiritAdder · 04/02/2025 23:24

JandamiHash · 04/02/2025 23:20

Well it is a fact because none of them were called as expert witnesses. Why do you think that is?

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Well their research papers were misused by “experts” who didn’t understand them.

JandamiHash · 04/02/2025 23:24

ZenNudist · 04/02/2025 23:23

The looking up the families of dead babies at anniversaries and Christmas was suspicious. She did lots of suspicious things and I didn't even follow it that closely. Plus she wrote I did this I am an awful person or something like that.

She also took pictures of the sympathy cards she gave to the parents of the babies she murdered and kept them on her phone.

Oftenaddled · 04/02/2025 23:24

Briannaco · 04/02/2025 23:23

Yes but companies have their own privacy rules in their contracts.

Contracts say things like " you must not use customer information for personal use outside of the workplace"

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Yes. Thirlwall asked the nurse manager. There was no rule against what Letby was doing at that time.

JandamiHash · 04/02/2025 23:25

Oftenaddled · 04/02/2025 23:23

That lot would have cost more than Letby's defence budget. They don't all do legal work normally. The defence could not anticipate how dishonest and nonsensical the prosecution's claims would be.

You don't hire these people by the hour on LinkedIn. They responded to the fact that the courts findings were absurd. Nobody could have predicted that before the trial.

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So you think the defence team wouldn’t get expert witnesses because they cost too much?

And of course the defence knew about the prosecutions claims!! It’s not like the movies where they hear prosecution evidence for the first time in court. Do you even know how the legal system works?

Oftenaddled · 04/02/2025 23:25

JandamiHash · 04/02/2025 23:24

She also took pictures of the sympathy cards she gave to the parents of the babies she murdered and kept them on her phone.

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She took a photo of one card. Why not?

Original poster

Dramatic · 04/02/2025 23:25

Ghosttofu99 · 04/02/2025 22:55

I think the whole suggestion that the court case and the resulting jury decision based on the evidence put forward is ‘unsound’ is a massive kick in the teeth for families who have been through enough.

If it was ‘poor care,’ who was giving that care?! She was! Best case scenario she was incompetent to the point where numerous babies died.

Deaths are also still being investigated at the other trust she worked at. It can’t all be blamed on NHS staffing levels etc.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2g20rpr78o.amp

Unfortunately for us/luckily for Letby, she is able to come across as completely plausible hence why she was able to get away with it for so long.

Some crimes are so heinous and unimaginable that people will desperately latch on to any suggestion that they happen. The families of those babies deserve better that for this to become another nonsense conspiracy theory.

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As the press conference showed it was multiple medical professionals that provided poor care, quite often it was doctors.

OP posts:

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 04/02/2025 23:25

SpiritAdder · 04/02/2025 23:24

Well their research papers were misused by “experts” who didn’t understand them.

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Only Shoo Lee’s. The others are people he assembled based on their seniority who didn’t have prior knowledge of or assumptions about the case.

Mirabai · 04/02/2025 23:25

Ghosttofu99 · 04/02/2025 23:17

Trigger warning:

And what about the testimonies of the families and what they witnessed? The mother who went to visit her twin to find it bleeding and Letby showed no interest and said not to worry, then made incorrect notes about what happened. Most descriptions from parents make her sound cold and lacking in ability to give emotionally appropriate responses to serious situations like being so happy trying to get that mum to wash her dead baby.

Not sure why so many people are bending over backwards to defend her when at best she is guilty of medical negligence. If it was pure coincidence that she was on shift for so made sick babies collapsing due to substandard care they she would have know what signs to look out for and could have given better care or whistle blown but it came out that she was mainly concerned with being on shift with that doctor she had a crush on.

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What medical negligence was LL responsible for? And can you explain why it was not included in the medical analysis presented today?

What did the parents witness? None of them saw anything incriminating or reported any concerns at the time.

samarrange · 04/02/2025 23:26

Oftenaddled · 04/02/2025 23:23

That lot would have cost more than Letby's defence budget. They don't all do legal work normally. The defence could not anticipate how dishonest and nonsensical the prosecution's claims would be.

You don't hire these people by the hour on LinkedIn. They responded to the fact that the courts findings were absurd. Nobody could have predicted that before the trial.

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I have seen a suggestion (and I wish I had bookmarked the link) that an expert witness in a trial of this kind can earn half a million pounds. I would very much like to know how much Dewi Evans was paid.

JandamiHash · 04/02/2025 23:26

Oftenaddled · 04/02/2025 23:25

She took a photo of one card. Why not?

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given the context of all the other suspicions around her the better question is: why

IIRC her answer was “I collect things”

JandamiHash · 04/02/2025 23:27

Mirabai · 04/02/2025 23:25

What medical negligence was LL responsible for? And can you explain why it was not included in the medical analysis presented today?

What did the parents witness? None of them saw anything incriminating or reported any concerns at the time.

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Well she murdered babies. Pretty negligent in my book

Kiwi83 · 04/02/2025 23:28

Dramatic · 04/02/2025 21:06

I have just watched the full press conference and I'm blown away. There seems to be no actual evidence AT ALL that she killed or injured those babies. This could be one of the biggest miscarriages of justice there has ever been in this country.

Many people realised this a long time ago, no evidence has ever been produced it's a shocking miscarriage of justice

JandamiHash · 04/02/2025 23:28

samarrange · 04/02/2025 23:26

I have seen a suggestion (and I wish I had bookmarked the link) that an expert witness in a trial of this kind can earn half a million pounds. I would very much like to know how much Dewi Evans was paid.

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Where did you hear that? Highly unlikely.

Why shouldn’t expert witnesses be paid?

Oftenaddled · 04/02/2025 23:28

JandamiHash · 04/02/2025 23:25

So you think the defence team wouldn’t get expert witnesses because they cost too much?

And of course the defence knew about the prosecutions claims!! It’s not like the movies where they hear prosecution evidence for the first time in court. Do you even know how the legal system works?

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Those witnesses. Have you looked at their CVs? They would have cost too much.

You think Letby would have been able to hire 14 leading international experts? Really?

Sure - I know how trials work. Evans changed tack midstream.

BoredZelda · 04/02/2025 23:28

Generally everything said at a trial can be openly reported unless the judge says otherwise (which is very unusual). It's not the case that evidence about insulin was not reported

I never said it wasn't reported. I was giving an example of how journalists can report on a case, within the bounds of contempt, and still cherry pick to make the best story.

They will write what will get people's attention. They aren't going to focus their report on 3 hours of dry testimony about something that the majority people won't understand, over the dramatic event that drew a gasp from the public gallery.

BeardofHagrid · 04/02/2025 23:28

If they want us to believe justice has been done, they could start off by naming the victims. We aren’t a secret state. Every murder victim has a name.

user243245346 · 04/02/2025 23:28

"Briannaco
It's not the Same. She was working as a nurse. Nurses are not meant to look up patients on facebook.

Digital protection and data breaches would have been in her contract.

She would have been warned in her contract that she could not use patient information for any personal use."

@Briannaco - it's not a breach of any data protection law to look up publicly available information on Facebook. It wouldn't be a breach of her employment contract either

Visho · 04/02/2025 23:28

"Why did she look up all those parents?"

Um because she was unprofessional?
Because she was curious?
Because she had a weird fixation on death?
Because she hoped that she'd see a post praising her for how wonderful she was with the family?
Because she was overly attached and felt like they'd been through something together and she thought she knew them?

Any number of reasons that are not being a murderer.

"Nurses aren't allowed to look people up."
"Nurses aren't allowed to take home handover sheets."

Ok so we fire her. We don't use it as evidence she's a murderer.

I don't even necessarily think shes innocent but I can't believe things like having bits of paper she shouldn't have and looking people up on Facebook can be even taken into account.

Oftenaddled · 04/02/2025 23:29

JandamiHash · 04/02/2025 23:26

given the context of all the other suspicions around her the better question is: why

IIRC her answer was “I collect things”

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You remember wrong then

JandamiHash · 04/02/2025 23:29

Oftenaddled · 04/02/2025 23:28

Those witnesses. Have you looked at their CVs? They would have cost too much.

You think Letby would have been able to hire 14 leading international experts? Really?

Sure - I know how trials work. Evans changed tack midstream.

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What witnesses??

You don’t know how trials work if you think the prosecution is allowed to blindside the defence

What do you mean Evans changed mid stream? Did he originally back Letby’s innocence?

Ginnyweasleyswand · 04/02/2025 23:29

It may well be she is guilty of medical negligence, as others on that ward may also be guilty. Or perhaps the medical negligence was in understaffing and underqualified staff being left to deal with difficult situations where they did not respond appropriately.

But that's a really far cry from being solely guilty of murder of all those babies.

One of the Canadian doctors said that the NICU would have been shut down in Canada with so many failings. It's unbelievable they had raw sewage in the NICU yet it remained open. Seems fairly obvious to me raw sewage poses a huge infection risk to such poorly babies.