Page 15 | Lucy Letby.....she might actually be innocent?!

Dramatic · 2025-02-04T21:06:51+00:00

I have just watched the full press conference and I'm blown away. There seems to be no actual evidence AT ALL that she killed or injured those babies. This could be one of the biggest miscarriages of justice there has ever been in this country.

YourAzureEagle · 04/02/2025 22:52

JimHalpertsWife · 04/02/2025 21:17

I followed it closely too. I've also served on a different jury and remeber the judge being explicit that if there was any reasonable doubt, then we had no choice but to return a not guilty verdict.

There was reasonable doubt in this case.

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And that's the key point, the law requires in every case, that if reasonable doubt exists, then the accused MUST be given the benefit of the doubt.

Its that principle that ensures not too many innocent people are locked up.

SpiritAdder · 04/02/2025 22:52

BIossomtoes · 04/02/2025 22:49

She agreed under oath that the insulin was administered. She denied doing it.

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What else was she supposed to do? When faced with these experts claiming it could only happen if administered (which we now know is false), she couldn’t challenge the experts on the stand. All she could say is the truth she knew which is she didn’t give any insulin to any babies.

JandamiHash · 04/02/2025 22:52

Firefly1987 · 04/02/2025 22:51

If she was a man the responses here would be SO different. Everyone would be saying miscarriages of justice are vanishingly rare, false accusations just don't happen look at all the red flags etc. I hardly think you'd be ok with a man facebook stalking your family after you lost your baby in their care. Yet people tie themselves in knots to deny the bleeping obvious.

I pointed that out in the first post and have received all manner of insults! The truth hurts for some people I guess. no one likes a mirror being held up to their own prejudices

Loloj · 04/02/2025 22:53

I’ve just watched half of the conference. He’s blown the “evidence” given by the prosecution out of the water for every baby death so far and found valid medical reasons for every death - mostly being medical negligence/incompetence from doctors and consultants. This has to go to a re-trial.

Phthia · 04/02/2025 22:53

RoundandSad · 04/02/2025 21:13

I didn't follow it

look at the information today then I looked at the case and was puzzled how she was convicted

wasn't on shift one of them

insulin levels in babies link to other conditions

evidence of injection of air bubbles seems to be based on bruising?

doesn't sound like "beyond reasonable doubt"?

has anyone read the court papers? Shocking if she is innocent

Edited

No-one will have read the court papers unless they were directly involved in the case. There will be large amounts of very personal information in there which will not be freely available.

Ginnyweasleyswand · 04/02/2025 22:53

The problem is that unless you're an expert on insulin levels in children of all ages then it's very difficult to come to a conclusion, you have to rely on experts which is what the jury did. One doctor, presented in court as an expert, says 'this level is suspicious' and then a more senior expert later says 'no, these levels are completely to be expected in children in this condition'.

However it does now seem to be the case that it was a non-expert who said the former and the top experts in the field saying the latter, so I'm more convinced by the latter.

None of the deaths were recorded as suspicious at the time, there seems to have been a lot of casting around to find suspicious things but months after the poor babies deaths so inevitably there will be huge gaps in what can be known.

I believe one of the experts on the panel questioning the conviction only got involved because he was concerned that his paper had been misrepresented in court during the original trial. That's pretty damning.

timetodecide2345 · 04/02/2025 22:55

As a nurse myself I did find it odd that her nursing colleagues 100% supported her. I think they would have had some degree of suspicion if she was guilty, as you work closely together and you're constantly evaluating each other.

SpiritAdder · 04/02/2025 22:55

TheyAreNotAngelsTheyDontCareAtAll · 04/02/2025 22:52

Defence!!!
This trial took place in England!

Yeah well some of us live in the US and read the NY Times expose.
You got problems over there same as we do.

Ghosttofu99 · 04/02/2025 22:55

mumofoneAlonebutokay · 04/02/2025 21:13

I 100% agree that she's been the victim of a cover up

To the pp who said if she was a minority then no-one would care, I hard agree, but I still think she's innocent as I would a minority woman

I've experienced workplace bullying. People are so fucking nasty and it's very believable that they've let her take the blame for department fuck ups as she's weird and no-one liked her

She's unwell and suffered a lot of bullying in her life - it makes you doubt yourself and think you're stupid

I'm rooting for her freedom and for justice for the mothers and families of those babies who were killed by good old fashioned workplace incompetence x

Edit - typos

Edited

I think the whole suggestion that the court case and the resulting jury decision based on the evidence put forward is ‘unsound’ is a massive kick in the teeth for families who have been through enough.

If it was ‘poor care,’ who was giving that care?! She was! Best case scenario she was incompetent to the point where numerous babies died.

Deaths are also still being investigated at the other trust she worked at. It can’t all be blamed on NHS staffing levels etc.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2g20rpr78o.amp

Unfortunately for us/luckily for Letby, she is able to come across as completely plausible hence why she was able to get away with it for so long.

Some crimes are so heinous and unimaginable that people will desperately latch on to any suggestion that they happen. The families of those babies deserve better that for this to become another nonsense conspiracy theory.

Lucy Letby inquiry: 'Tubes dislodged' during placement at other hospital - BBC News

Lucy Letby worked two placements at Liverpool Women's Hospital in 2012 and 2015.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2g20rpr78o.amp

Genevieva · 04/02/2025 22:55

Cerial · 04/02/2025 22:47

Fact she had no defense experts to defend her …. Was very telling. There was not one person that could explain her innocence under oath. Not one person at either trial. Not one expert under oath ….

Many now, when it’s too late, saying loads of stuff and their evidence is not being tested / cross examined. Bunch of attention seeking experts now when there’s no pressure and it’s too late anyway.
She and her defense decided to have no experts to defend her …. Because it would not help her, only harm her defense.

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If only that were true.

Her current defence team are pro bono and are not her previous, publicly funded defence team. Publicly funded defence teams are under funded. There have been cases (in less serious crimes where a custodial sentence might not be given) of defendants being told by their defence team that there isn't enough money for them to plead not guilty, so just admit guilt and the judge will give them a metaphorical rap on the knuckles and send them on their way. At other times, the defence team are simply not experienced enough for the case, so the defence is inadequate. I have no idea whether this is the case with regards to Lucy Letby, but I do know it was negligent not to call her expert witness.

soupyspoon · 04/02/2025 22:55

TheyAreNotAngelsTheyDontCareAtAll · 04/02/2025 22:50

That's not interest. It's relishing the grief of bereaved people.
Totally shameless and very weird.
If fb didn't exist, i doubt people would be standing outside the house of a bereaved person oggling at their grief.

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Im not sure that can be read into looking at facebook. Relishing the grief isnt how I would describe that sort of interest.

summerlovingvibes · 04/02/2025 22:55

Guilty as sin IMO.
From following the trial closely and working in the profession myself I have no doubt at all in my mind that she is guilty.

I think all this new "evidence" that has come to light to suggest otherwise is a hard push from her lawyers to make massive mountains (excuses) out of mole hills. They are obviously trying to get her a lesser sentence by creating all this fuss.

She is (sadly) guilty.
I dont like to think that anyone could have ever do this but I am also someone who normally sits on the fence. Not in this case. 100% guilty.

BoredZelda · 04/02/2025 22:55

Regardless of whether she is guilty or innocent, if the evidence is found to be flawed or if her defence were negligent, she should not be in prison. None of this armchair detective stuff is relevant.

And babies in the brink of going home and being “full term” died under Letby’s watch

This means nothing. Mine was "ready to go home" twice before she was actually allowed to go home.

The press were also in court, as is normal in a trial of this sort

The press report what is going to sell their story that day. The sensational information, the high drama stuff.

Briannaco · 04/02/2025 22:55

OliveThe0therReindeer · 04/02/2025 22:49

Because some people might say “ Oh if that were me I’d be screaming hysterically , I couldn’t even stand or walk , I’d be so devastated . The fact that Olive could walk PROVES she’s a heartless evil bitch who probably killed her child. “

Whereas in fact you don’t know WHAT you would do/ think / feel until you are in the situation. For most people it’s outside their experience or comprehension .

I don’t know what I’d write in my diary if I’d been accused of killing babies. I don’t know what I’d look up on the internet . I don’t know how I’d act if I was arrested for murder . Im pretty sure whatever I did would look like “ guilt “ to some of you.

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It's not the Same. She was working as a nurse. Nurses are not meant to look up patients on facebook.

Digital protection and data breaches would have been in her contract.

She would have been warned in her contract that she could not use patient information for any personal use.

I worked as a youth worker, and in our contract we were told that we could not speak to any of the young people on social media.

In a completely different job I worked as customer service for a bank once.

We were specifically told that we could not look up any of our friends /families bank accounts to have a nose. That would have resulted in us being fired. If I had looked up any of the bank customers on Facebook and I was caught doing it I also would have been fired.

Police officers are only allowed to access "need to know " information. If they were found to be looking up anyone on Facebook I'm sure they would be given a warning/maybe fired

laveritable · 04/02/2025 22:56

Briannaco · 04/02/2025 21:44

Why was she looking at parents of the dead babies facebook pages?

I thought that was very odd

She searched for everyone of her victim's mother! She even searched for one on christmas day at midnight ; how sick!

TheyAreNotAngelsTheyDontCareAtAll · 04/02/2025 22:56

SpiritAdder · 04/02/2025 22:55

Yeah well some of us live in the US and read the NY Times expose.
You got problems over there same as we do.

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You got problems...? What does that mean?

Ihopeithinkiknow · 04/02/2025 22:56

@OliveThe0therReindeer I'm sorry for your loss, I lost my son in an accident in 2022 and I often think back to that time and some things I did which would make people think I didn't care or I'm not normal lol it's a really weird thing to go through when you are smack bang in the middle of the worst time of your life and people comment saying "if that was me I would be on the floor sobbing uncontrollably" that's not reality although there were times I did do that but I was just on autopilot for a few weeks after.
I also wrote down my feelings when it got to much and I wrote that I killed him and I would never forgive myself, he was 400 miles away when he was hit by a car so of course I didn't kill him but in my mind I should have been there to stop the accident and because I wasn't I felt like it was my fault. Some people think they know exactly how they will react in a traumatic situation but until they actually know then they have no bloody idea

ThreeLocusts · 04/02/2025 22:57

OliveThe0therReindeer · 04/02/2025 22:49

Because some people might say “ Oh if that were me I’d be screaming hysterically , I couldn’t even stand or walk , I’d be so devastated . The fact that Olive could walk PROVES she’s a heartless evil bitch who probably killed her child. “

Whereas in fact you don’t know WHAT you would do/ think / feel until you are in the situation. For most people it’s outside their experience or comprehension .

I don’t know what I’d write in my diary if I’d been accused of killing babies. I don’t know what I’d look up on the internet . I don’t know how I’d act if I was arrested for murder . Im pretty sure whatever I did would look like “ guilt “ to some of you.

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Amen.

JandamiHash · 04/02/2025 22:57

Ghosttofu99 · 04/02/2025 22:55

I think the whole suggestion that the court case and the resulting jury decision based on the evidence put forward is ‘unsound’ is a massive kick in the teeth for families who have been through enough.

If it was ‘poor care,’ who was giving that care?! She was! Best case scenario she was incompetent to the point where numerous babies died.

Deaths are also still being investigated at the other trust she worked at. It can’t all be blamed on NHS staffing levels etc.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2g20rpr78o.amp

Unfortunately for us/luckily for Letby, she is able to come across as completely plausible hence why she was able to get away with it for so long.

Some crimes are so heinous and unimaginable that people will desperately latch on to any suggestion that they happen. The families of those babies deserve better that for this to become another nonsense conspiracy theory.

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Well said.

I find this Lucy Is Innocent Fan Club phenomena (which despite what a PP said has been around since the verdict) who have rarely actually bothered their arses to read the evidence available, deeply disturbing. And I 100% stick by my belief that this wouldn’t happen if Letby was black. People can kid themselves they don’t see race all they want, but I’m right

SpiritAdder · 04/02/2025 22:57

timetodecide2345 · 04/02/2025 22:55

As a nurse myself I did find it odd that her nursing colleagues 100% supported her. I think they would have had some degree of suspicion if she was guilty, as you work closely together and you're constantly evaluating each other.

I read upthread too that the nurses had been banned from testifying while the doctors who thought she was guilty were encouraged to testify. That’s a bit fishy for a hospital to do that says they only wanted a fair trial.

SpiritAdder · 04/02/2025 22:58

TheyAreNotAngelsTheyDontCareAtAll · 04/02/2025 22:56

You got problems...? What does that mean?

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It means your justice system is also corrupt and often serves to exonerate government lackeys by nailing scapegoats like ours does.

FiveBarGate · 04/02/2025 22:59

I do wonder if in cases like this where the evidence is based on quite complex science, more specialist jury's are needed.

It is extremely difficult for a lay person to understand and the professor who wrote the paper used to build the prosecution case doesn't agree with how it was presented.

I remember from the Louise Woodward case that in the US a certain number of jurors are dismissed at random before the final decision making (presumably they have extra in case of illness etc). It so happened they were pretty much all of the ones with a scientific background and her defence team felt this was a big factor in the initial prosecution. Of course they would argue this but quite a number at the time went on record to say they didn't agree.

There are a lot of parallels here in that much of the evidence hangs on a relatively small amount of research and it is hard for anyone to say this is definitely what happens when air is injected because there is so little to base firm conclusions on.

mumofoneAlonebutokay · 04/02/2025 22:59

Ghosttofu99 · 04/02/2025 22:55

I think the whole suggestion that the court case and the resulting jury decision based on the evidence put forward is ‘unsound’ is a massive kick in the teeth for families who have been through enough.

If it was ‘poor care,’ who was giving that care?! She was! Best case scenario she was incompetent to the point where numerous babies died.

Deaths are also still being investigated at the other trust she worked at. It can’t all be blamed on NHS staffing levels etc.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2g20rpr78o.amp

Unfortunately for us/luckily for Letby, she is able to come across as completely plausible hence why she was able to get away with it for so long.

Some crimes are so heinous and unimaginable that people will desperately latch on to any suggestion that they happen. The families of those babies deserve better that for this to become another nonsense conspiracy theory.

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I don't think I'd classify this as a conspiracy theory. I see it as a rational reaction to the strong reasonable doubt surrounding her guilt

She is white and a woman but that shouldn't go against her in the same way it shouldn't go for her

I simply believe that people are as cruel as you say and would think nothing of sacrificing Lucy and her life for their own careers - the NHS is a shambles, as much as I love it, and failures like these are, I'm sure, not unheard of or unreasonable to believe in

My heart goes out to the families and the women who had to say goodbye to the babies they carried inside of them 💔

But imo justice hasn't been done here

Cerial · 04/02/2025 22:59

Genevieva · 04/02/2025 22:55

If only that were true.

Her current defence team are pro bono and are not her previous, publicly funded defence team. Publicly funded defence teams are under funded. There have been cases (in less serious crimes where a custodial sentence might not be given) of defendants being told by their defence team that there isn't enough money for them to plead not guilty, so just admit guilt and the judge will give them a metaphorical rap on the knuckles and send them on their way. At other times, the defence team are simply not experienced enough for the case, so the defence is inadequate. I have no idea whether this is the case with regards to Lucy Letby, but I do know it was negligent not to call her expert witness.

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Not negligent when it’s in clients best interest NOT to call witnesses.
She was asked by the judge , she was asked directly. She confirmed, no witnesses.

Not negligent. She will not be getting an appeal based on lack of witnesss.

Katbum · 04/02/2025 22:59

I followed the trial as closely as was possible without actually being there. as in followed Twitter live tweets, newspaper coverage podcasts etc - the evidence always seemed v flimsy to me, I presumed there were unreported factors that swayed jury. If not and if these reviews are correct it’s a huge miscarriage of justice. Fact is, we will never know for sure.