Criticise my business plan

[somewhereinsuburbia]

It's an alcohol free bar. With all the mood, buzz, excitement of a normal bar but no alcoholic drinks are sold. Serves really nice, grown up non alcoholic cocktails, not super sweet bright pink juice. All the beers on draft are non alcoholic.
I thought with so many people not drinking, and cultures where the majority don't drink, it would probably be a success in a big city like London or Manchester. A lot of my Muslim friends have to meet in cafes which aren't the same in terms of atmosphere, and they all shut at 6.
We could also hold nights like sober speed dating, matching teetotal people with others, for either friendship or a relationship.
But someone must have tried it, it must have been thought of and trialled before, did it not work?

Waste of time. Would be impossible to make a good profit.

Do you think you’re so defensive of the (resounding) negativity towards your idea might be some kind of subconscious anxiety about your partner relapsing at some point, and you trying to find the magic cure to this? Even if you’re not consciously aware of it?

Because you asked for criticism, you got lots of genuine reasons why it really will not work, you admit yourself there’s no actual business plan etc - but still seem extremely determined to cling to what is a crazy idea.

It makes me wonder if that’s because somewhere deep down you see this is a way to head off future temptation for your partner? It cannot be easy in a relationship with an addict, and it must take a toll subconsciously - I’m just wondering if you have sat down and reflected on whether it is impacting your own mental wellbeing at all?

My husband wandered into my office earlier I sort of mentioned this off the cuff to him to see what he said (the idea itself), and he looked at me like I’ve got 2 heads, and asked if it would also be suggested that heroin addicts should frequent mock up crack dens. Essentially, why would a recovering alcoholic want to be reminded of alcohol by way of a pretend bar? It’s just asking for trouble.

@somewhereinsuburbia I'm an ideas person too but the reality is I'm afraid that until rent/ business rates are free and people will work for nothing and stock is delivered free of charge then both have to work totally hand in hand- I've seen some fabulous businesses in terms of concept fail simply because the numbers didn't add up to even break even, never mind a profit - they often don't !!

The problem is that, as others have said, it isn't usual to have entire groups that are teetotal. I don't drink often at all but happily sit in a pub with others who are. But the difference is my drinking friends and family wouldn't want to go to a teetotal bar. Maybe as a one off, but not regularly.

@Nina1013 you don't need to psychoanalyse me. I know how it sounds. No it's because I tell hundreds of young people and older people too that they probably won't be able to drink any alcohol for the rest of their lives. It's essentially a really difficult thing to comprehend in our culture. I think there is a space for this sort of concept in the current market. Lots of young people aren't drinking due to it being associated with embarrassing middle age people with their bottomless brunches, wine mums, gammons etc. It will become more of a movement. In the same way a vegan restaurant was once scoffed at

I lived in a country that had a high non alcohol drinking population, including many young Muslims. The most popular venues like this were dessert cafes. They'd be heaving in the evenings. Usually open very late, often with a sort of instagrammable American diner vibe and serving mocktails, fancy milkshakes, and dessert like sundaes, waffles and pancakes. Earlier in the day and evening they'd be full of the family crowd and later at night groups of young people/students/ young married couples.

Vegan restaurants are closing at an alarming rate.

For the same reason.

I can have fun without booze but I wouldn't go to a bar that doesn't sell alcohol to do that. I'd go shopping, crazy golf, spa, out for food, bowling, flight club, cinema, coffee shop etc

I have loads of activities and hobbies where alcohol plays absolutely zero part.

I have always believed that people need quiet indoor hobbies they can do on their own to occupy themselves without any external influence.

The people who you tell not to drink maybe need a hobby to replace the bar/pint/beer.

I’m going to be tough (as a marketing director in the drinks industry & owner of a bar):

This isn’t a business plan - it’s an idea.

How much will it cost you to set up? How are you going to finance it?

Penetration of the low / no alc category is still extremely low.

The value of the category is still extremely small and although is growing it’s off a very small base.

As a bar owner we couldn’t survive selling only non alc options. Consumers aren’t willing to pay and demand isn’t there.

I would say a lot of the likelihood of the success of this is in its execution. I can always tell when a new cafe opens whether or not it will succeed. It's a lot to do with aesthetics and vibes. Art not science. Good luck!

Again, you need to seperate out this idea as a concept from whether it would work as a business.

A bar/pub type business that only serves non-alcoholic drinks appeals to a much smaller market than a bar/pub which serves alcohol. Having a nice cosy space to go and sip a virgin pina colada is all very well, but do you honestly think you can make any sort of money out of it?

Decent cocktail bars already cater for your target market. If 4 people are going out for drinks, if even 1 of those people wants to have alcohol they are not going to spend any money with you.

I would go to it, especially if it offers hot and cold drinks and vegan cakes. If it also has live jazz, country or trad bands I'm in.

No idea about this as a business model tho.

My fb feed is now full of adverts for pricy non alcoholic drinks.

I'm not Muslim btw.

Maybe you need to think of this is a different way?

What you are proposing is pretty much a juice bar/cafe with the atmosphere of a pub.
Where I live, there are alcohol free shisha bars (that serve food) and a dessert cafe that cater to . They cater to a different clientele during the day when pubs/bars are empty. There is also cafe that is only open during the evening when it has events - live music, film nights, comedy etc.

There just isn’t a big enough or profitable enough market for your idea.

Have you considered seeing if any cafes would let you hire the space for pop up nights? I know people who have done that for pop up dinners.

Mr Fitzpatricks, it's more a cafe now even though it still sells the old cordials. It's only open 10-4. So whilst it's a brilliant little place and still officially Britain's oldest temperance bar it's not really what OP had in mind.

My friend is a pub owner

Their electricity bill has trebled this year

They are having to put on many events to attract people into their pub

They already sell alchol free drinks & soft drinks
alcohol & food

Therefore you will need more than alcohol free drinks to attract people !

I live close to an area with a high proportion of Muslims. They have some amazing alcohol free socialising venues that are all busy on an evening... non are trying to recreate a bar though (although alcohol free cocktails do feature). It's mainly a mix of really stylish dessert places and restaurants.

I'm not sure that a bar without alcohol would appeal to many people to be honest. Or that it would be profitable given how many soft drinks customers are likely to buy in one go.

It will become more of a movement. In the same way a vegan restaurant was once scoffed at

There are very few successful vegan restaurants, though. They only work in very specific areas and at a very specific price point. They also sell alcohol and will make a good amount of money on vegan wines, etc.

You may be right that the alcohol-free movement will grow in popularity, but to cash in on it, you need to do something totally different - not just try and re-create a bar but without the booze. Like PP have said, the way these places are successful is when they involve other things like food or entertainment. Dessert bars are insanely popular where I live, for example.

It will become more of a movement. In the same way a vegan restaurant was once scoffed at

Veganism has become huge. But vegan restaurants have not. Mainstream / Omnivore places have started to include vegan dishes. It's vey rare to find a restaurant or cafe that doesn't. KFC and McDonalds both have a choice of vegan items, pub, bakeries, sandwich bars - all have vegan options. Masterchef features vegan chefs, Bake Off has vegan bakers.

But vegan restaurants are not thriving. Inclusivity rather than exclusivity seems to be more successful, viable - or favoured.

Pubs and bars and restaurants now always have mocktails and alcohol free beers. etc. Alongside inherently soft drinks.

I would definitely come OP ☺️ I think it’s a hell of a risk but I cannot stand pubs at night (so don’t go to any) and I’d love to be able to go somewhere that I felt safer and be able to order a drink knowing I wouldn’t be accidentally given alcohol.

If you believe there’s a market for it OP, why don’t you test it out with a monthly pop-up night in existing cafe premises that are only open during the day? That will give you a lot of information and market feedback to put into your business plan if you think it might be a viable business. I would 100% advise against going off and getting your own premises and trying to make that work.