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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Criticise my business plan

147 replies

somewhereinsuburbia · 03/02/2025 07:42

It's an alcohol free bar. With all the mood, buzz, excitement of a normal bar but no alcoholic drinks are sold. Serves really nice, grown up non alcoholic cocktails, not super sweet bright pink juice. All the beers on draft are non alcoholic.
I thought with so many people not drinking, and cultures where the majority don't drink, it would probably be a success in a big city like London or Manchester. A lot of my Muslim friends have to meet in cafes which aren't the same in terms of atmosphere, and they all shut at 6.
We could also hold nights like sober speed dating, matching teetotal people with others, for either friendship or a relationship.
But someone must have tried it, it must have been thought of and trialled before, did it not work?

OP posts:
ComtesseDeSpair · 03/02/2025 12:33

somewhereinsuburbia · 03/02/2025 12:28

@ComtesseDeSpair if you can't have fun without alcohol, that is an alcohol problem

This is the point. Most people who drink alcohol can have fun without alcohol. Which is why they don’t want something which replaces alcohol when they do choose to drink alcohol. They don’t need it.

I go to a bar when I want an alcoholic drink. If I don’t want an alcoholic drink, I don’t go to a bar - I do some other sort of social activity entirely.

Nina1013 · 03/02/2025 12:33

Another point that’s just popped into my mind….why would an alcoholic want to drink
pretend alcohol? Surely that’s just asking for trouble?

Mocktails etc I understand, but pretend beer, wine and spirits? Surely that’s not a good idea?

for the same reason as the fact that bars aren’t allowed to sell alcohol free drinks like these to children - including mocktails that have alcohol free spirits in.

7inchesFromTheMiddaySun · 03/02/2025 12:33

somewhereinsuburbia · 03/02/2025 09:46

I think maybe there's two or three different ideas then

  • a community led, not for profit pop up evening once a month or so for newly sober people looking to connect and rebuild their social life outside of addiction. This would likely have to be held in a community space and therefore would not give the ambience of a high end cocktail bar.
  • a late night high end halal restaurant and side late night cafe, which I am not the right person to run given my lack of cultural knowledge.
  • a teen hang out which is like a bar or pub but with no alcohol, but strict instructions that people must buy something and no large groups allowed in etc. I don't see this as viable unless aiming at very rich teens who seem to hang around sushi restaurants in my town. So hence they are catered for.
  • the original idea but serve alcohol as well, which seems beside the point. Plus how would we carve out a USP?
I see these bars are popular in Salt Lake City where the majority of people don't drink. Maybe there will be a market in 3-5 years.

the original idea but serve alcohol as well, which seems beside the point. Plus how would we carve out a USP?

The USP would be a very broad range of very nice, non-alcoholic drinks. When OP and I go out and one of us is driving, we often end up with a bottle of sparling water for the driver, because the price of the non-alcoholic drinks are high and the choice limited and poor.

So a place with as broad a range of alcohol-free drinks (not just mocktails) as the range of alcoholic drinks, would be appealing to us.

Cattery · 03/02/2025 12:38

somewhereinsuburbia · 03/02/2025 12:17

@Cattery so are we really saying that booze really is the main thing we enjoy about socialising? How depressing

I’m saying that, yes. It’s life x

MySpringAir · 03/02/2025 12:45

I don't think it's that alcohol is the main thing we enjoy about socialising. Many non-drinkers are perfectly happy with a soft drink at a pub or bar, and then we can still be with our friends who do want an alcoholic drink. Plus, I'm not spending £9.50 for a glass of mixed fruit juice 'mocktail' when I could buy a sparking water or orange juice for £2.

malificent7 · 03/02/2025 12:47

Mocktails might be an avenue to go down

Nina1013 · 03/02/2025 12:55

somewhereinsuburbia · 03/02/2025 12:28

@ComtesseDeSpair if you can't have fun without alcohol, that is an alcohol problem

No, it’s a choice.

You posted a thread asking people to critique your business plan (which isn’t a business plan but ok….), and have been resoundingly told it’s a bad idea, insufficient market, etc.

You clearly don’t want to hear it, so why not just go ahead and do it anyway.

You have chosen a sober life and want to support your partner, that’s fine. However, the vast majority of people in the U.K. (which is your demographic…not a heavily Mormon area of America) will include alcohol when socialising.

That doesn’t mean they have a problem with alcohol, it means they are able to moderate their alcohol intake in a healthy way without becoming reliant on it, in a way that your partner was unable to. I’m very sorry for his struggles, but the answer is not to lash out at or judge those who do enjoy a few drinks to let their hair down….it will be the vast majority of the adult population of the U.K., of which those who descend into addiction is a tiny proportion.

And brutally, THAT is the crux of what’s wrong with your business idea. It’s based around one person, and what one person you care about would like to do. There isn’t a mass market and I would argue there isn’t even a niche market because of all non drinkers (which in itself is a minority) you then have sub groups -

Recovering alcoholics for whom a ‘fake pub’ with ‘fake alcohol’ would be a huge trigger

People whose religious beliefs mean they wouldn’t be comfortable in a ‘fake bar’ - as others have said, they go to late night dessert places etc.

People who don’t drink but have no issue with those who do, and socialise with their friends who do enjoy alcohol, so again wouldn’t come. They would go somewhere that caters to all.

You will not get a pub football game atmosphere in a dry bar. You’ll get a very dull atmosphere with a football game in the background.

Your niche is far too niche. It appears to be very specific to what your partner misses.

You are misunderstanding, either intentionally or genuinely, the part that alcohol plays in the atmosphere of a pub, bar, evening entertainment venue. It’s pretty much the backbone of it.

I say this as someone who has a ‘proper’ night out once a year at best and rarely drinks, but I completely understand that what you’re trying to do won’t work.

As others have said, it would be far better to try to set up some kind of community interest company aimed at supporting young revolving addicts by giving them a social setting where they can go, without temptation or triggers. But you need to understand that the market for that will be very small, therefore no profit, hence CIC type set up would be needed. You’d probably find others more inclined to also drop in for a drink here and there to support the cause itself (which is a very noble one…it’s just not going to work as a business).

SleepingisanArt · 03/02/2025 12:56

I was in hospitality for a long time (restaurant owner plus upmarket retail alcohol shop and have WSET qualifications). A lot of the AF wines, beers and spirits (which don't taste like grape juice or other herbal concoction) began life as the alcoholic version and it costs a huge amount of money to remove the alcohol. It is nearly impossible to find an AF wine that bears any resemblance to the flavour you get in a good quality wine yet the AF wine costs as much. There are a few 'good' products out there, beers are the best for flavour, but most people can taste the difference between gin and AF gin even when dressed up with fancy tonic and garnishes. They certainly don't want to pay the same price as they would for an actual gin and tonic. The replacements for spirits which have the best flavours are usually the same price as small batch artisan spirits and so the cost to the customer is high - they see AF equating to cheap. In one of our restaurants there were customers who'd share a bottle of wine over the course of their 3 course meal and there were others who would only drink tap water and share a starter and a dessert - they took up as much space, created the same amount of work for the staff (wanting their starter split onto 2 plates) but they barely covered the cost. It's the same as people who buy one coffee and work on their laptop in a cafe for several hours..... Unless you offer something other than expensive AF drinks you will not survive. (Did you know that Carluccios make more money from their shops than they do from their all day cafe/restaurants?)

DeepFatFried · 03/02/2025 12:58

I quite often go to a pub and drink lime and soda.

I might go to a ‘dry’ bar at times I didn’t fancy a drink but I wouldn’t go out of my way, I’d just go to the nearest nice pub and choose lime and soda,

So that cuts your market right down.

And I wouldn’t choose to have a meal in a dry bar if I fancied a glass of red wine with my food. Because red wine has an enjoyable complex taste that for me complements food and isn’t replicated in any alcohol free option.

Another blow to your customer base.

The Muslims in my area seem to enjoy and flock to the cafe style culture and whilst they have opened cafes etc they haven’t chosen To open a mock pub.

Magnastorm · 03/02/2025 12:59

somewhereinsuburbia · 03/02/2025 12:28

@ComtesseDeSpair if you can't have fun without alcohol, that is an alcohol problem

You need to seperate out what you think is a "nice" place to go and a place which will actually make money.

biscuitsandbooks · 03/02/2025 13:00

somewhereinsuburbia · 03/02/2025 12:17

@Cattery so are we really saying that booze really is the main thing we enjoy about socialising? How depressing

There are lots of ways to socialise without alcohol and people do them everyday. But trying to recreate the atmosphere of a posh, high end bar without alcohol just seems to be a bit pointless, really.

People can already go to posh bars and not drink it that's what they want to do - they don't need to go to a special "dry" venue for that. In fact, they'd probably prefer the regular bar because their drinks will be cheaper (as they're subsided by the expensive alcohol sales).

If you want a dry venue then your selling point needs to be something that's not available elsewhere - amazing food, posh desserts, stand up comedy, live music - not just the same kind of drinks you can get elsewhere for less.

catgirl1976 · 03/02/2025 13:03

Too niche, not enough demand and not enough margins to make a profit. Sorry. I’m out.

biscuitsandbooks · 03/02/2025 13:05

somewhereinsuburbia · 03/02/2025 12:28

@ComtesseDeSpair if you can't have fun without alcohol, that is an alcohol problem

It's not that people can't have fun without alcohol - it's that people are unlikely to go to a bar to have fun without alcohol.

They'd go out for lunch, or for a walk, or to a museum, or to a cafe for coffee and cake, or to each other's houses - taking a venue renowned for alcohol and getting rid of said alcohol just doesn't make any sense. It's like opening a McDonald's but getting rid of the burger buns because some people are gluten free.

If you want to create a non-alcoholic venue then you need to find something other than cocktails to focus it on - good food, music, comedy, book clubs, desserts, tapas - something that will get people through the door and spending money.

Miaowzabella · 03/02/2025 13:07

It's a nice idea, but a lot of the 'buzz' is actually due to alcohol.

mumda · 03/02/2025 13:09

Like Milk Bars?

I don't see a business plan though.

You need
A brief outline of your marketing plan. (how you'll tell people you're there)
An assessment of your competition and how you’ll compete for market share. (Who is your competition? And how will you compete)
A financial analysis, including projections for the first few years. (Ah the hard bit. Ever run a business before?)

Licensing is less complicated without alcohol.

RitaFromTheRanch · 03/02/2025 13:13

The alcoholics I know wouldn't drink non alcohol drinks that look like alcohol.

whathaveiforgotten · 03/02/2025 13:16

somewhereinsuburbia · 03/02/2025 12:17

@Cattery so are we really saying that booze really is the main thing we enjoy about socialising? How depressing

No but drinking alcohol with friends is the main thing people enjoy within pubs and bars.

Trying to recreate pub / bar culture without including drinking culture isn't something I think would work any time soon in the UK.

They're too intrinsically linked.

DeepFatFried · 03/02/2025 13:18

somewhereinsuburbia · 03/02/2025 12:28

@ComtesseDeSpair if you can't have fun without alcohol, that is an alcohol problem

This is so trite.

Everyone has fun without alcohol, on countless occasions, whether it is board games with the kids, hiking up a mountain, going trampolining or eating coffee and cake with friends.

Sometimes people choose drinks that they enjoy, and take wine seriously and do not want to pay for a good meal without a glass of nice wine. Sometimes people feel like a cold bitter beer because it is enjoyable for its own sake, nothing else tastes like it or replaces it. Sometimes people want to sit together enjoying the drink that they like: real ale.

None of this is a problem.

Some of us even occasionally enjoy getting a little bit tipsy and ridiculous with friends. Also not a problem, anymore than staying up dancing til 4am and feeling groggy at work the next day as a result.

If your business plan is based in a judgey approach to non problematic social drinking you will deter many customers. If you are on a social or health mission here, be sure to vet all the soft drinks and snacks you serve for excess sugar, E numbers, carcinogenically fried crisps etc.

DeepFatFried · 03/02/2025 13:22

Also: you haven’t got a ‘business plan’. You have a vague idea. You have no marketing / customer data, no financial viability plan based on costs, staffing, legal structure , investment strategy, etc etc.

KnewYearKnewMe · 03/02/2025 13:36

DeepFatFried · 03/02/2025 13:22

Also: you haven’t got a ‘business plan’. You have a vague idea. You have no marketing / customer data, no financial viability plan based on costs, staffing, legal structure , investment strategy, etc etc.

This, OP.

Do you have a business plan, including financials etc?

If so, I'd happily critique it.

somewhereinsuburbia · 03/02/2025 13:56

I know this isn't a business plan. I've never written a business plan in my life. I'm not a figures person, I'm an ideas person.

OP posts:
Crikeyalmighty · 03/02/2025 13:57

@DeepFatFried otherwise we're into 'business on the back of a fag packet' methodology -

biscuitsandbooks · 03/02/2025 14:05

somewhereinsuburbia · 03/02/2025 13:56

I know this isn't a business plan. I've never written a business plan in my life. I'm not a figures person, I'm an ideas person.

Then your business will fail.

Bjorkdidit · 03/02/2025 14:07

KnewYearKnewMe · 03/02/2025 13:36

This, OP.

Do you have a business plan, including financials etc?

If so, I'd happily critique it.

I've just noticed that the title of the thread is 'criticise my business plan' not critique.

Looks like the OP got what she asked for.

MounjaroOnMyMind · 03/02/2025 14:10

I just can't understand why you didn't Google this when the idea first occurred to you.

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