How are people managing to pay the bills in this shit show

[Allthenameshavegone1972]

My daughter, fiance & dgs moved into their small, rented house nearly 3 years ago. Finding it a big struggle every month with the rent being £860. We, & her in-laws are guarantors for their rent.
I've found out her fiance has asked to borrow money for rent from his mum & for the second time my daughter has asked to borrow as he has not had the overtime. They obviously can't afford it. Both trying to get pay rises but it's hard in this day & age.
At the grand old age of 60 I was hoping to take a break from my office job, which I hate, for a few months and then go temping or work part time. We can afford for me to do that. If, on the other hand, I'm working full time then we can afford to be guarantors for their rent. Cant win either way!
She wishes theyd never rented now. They were living with her inlaws who have the space for them. She wishes she'd saved that rental money for a deposit instead. Their only option is to go back living with them, or all us parents carry-on working til we drop to pay for their rent. At 60 years old we should not have the pressure of working til we drop to pay for our adult dc's rent. We're not going to be in the best of health to work forever as we get older.
My dd is despairing, saying that she can't see life getting any better. I agree, unless us parents die relatively young without needing a care home and they inherit from us.
This shit show of a housing & col crisis is at breaking point, something had to be done, but I don't know what! 😡😡

Stop subsidising them

two car loans… why? Do they drive a fancy car each?

I bet they also feel basics includes meals out, takeaways, fancy trips, lots of brand new stuff for the home, beauty stuff, nails etc etc

you can just tell from the 2 car loans they feel entitled to live a certain lifestyle

I would not fund them

That rent is low. DD is a student and is rent for a shared room in a house is about £500pcm. We pay the rent but won't be once she graduates. There are 3 of them in the house soe £1500pcm for a 3 bed house in a reasonable area of a northern city.

@devastatedagain who is envious of a council house? No one that I know

There's going to be other reasons because that's a reasonable rent to pay on 2 salaries and no childcare costs. My dsd pays £1250 a month for starters and she earns minimum wage, he earns a bit more but hardly a high salary. My dd and her dp pays less for rent but saves £1000 a month to buy a house.

I suspect the issue isn't rent but loans, debts etc plus living a lifestyle they can't afford

While this is true, this couple have cheap rent and no childcare bills.

They should be better off than most people in their position, most of whom appear to be managing to scrape by.

I voted YABU as something's not adding up. Time to sit them down and do a financial audit, maybe with both sets of parents, and over tea and biscuits to make it more friendly rather than a big interrogation. What's wanted is a good clear outcome rather than any resentment.

Those car loans need looking at first thing, for sure.

Probably people who think they are 'free houses', like people on PIP are supposed to have 'free cars'. I saw the latter here on MN just today.

@FebruaryCrow They must be a bit crap at managing money then, or their childcare is taking an entire wage? Plus maybe someone's got an expensive car and Starbucks habit - it does creep up on people.
An eternally skint relative easily spends £260 a month in the coffee shop, we worked out. And £250 on petrol, not 'about fifty quid' like he was deluding himself.

Well yes, he should stop spending £260/month in the coffee shop, but the petrol is generally an unavoidable expense. If you need to spend £250 on petrol to get around and get to work, then that's what the bill is (and contrary to popular belief, public transport is usually not a cheaper alternative).

I wondered that. The rent is reasonable for a house. However, I don't want to make a judgement because there may be circumstances.
.................
Op, it's good that you and your daughter's in-laws are helping out. That's what we, as parents, do. It's nor forever. In a few years they will be solvent.

I was always hard up when younger, I should say 'we' actually. We were helped from time to time though we both worked. My late husband and I have helped our son but he no longer needs that from me, he earns very well. He would help me if I needed it, he's a generous person.

I'm 75 and manage quite well now. That's one advantage of getting old :-). You are a spring chicken by comparison.

Agree with this

If you are being asked to guarantor for them and now subsidise them you are not being unreasonable to ask them to detail out for a couple of months exactly where their money is going so you can give them advice on where they can cut back.

I've had this conversation with my niece that tattoos to remember the dog that just died, nails done, eyebrows, hair colouring at a salon, costa coffee or £30 moisturisers etc etc etc all add up quickly, explaining great-niece only needed one pair of shoes and one pair of wellies, not a wardrobe full and are a luxury after the rent and bills are paid now you have responsibilities!

Or stop giving them money so they look into their budgeting themselves (or give it as a loan that must be paid back within a month or two)

We lived VERY frugally the first few years after dh and I moved into our own place. We had a mattress on the floor for the first year while we prioritised other things we needed, if she was in the same situation I would perhaps help a niece out with a bed as a gift but I would stay away from getting into a habit of paying their bills.

Rent £860
Car finance £300 each (£600)
Car insurance £80 each
Car tax £20 each
Council tax £120
Gas and Electric £150
Water £25
Phone contracts £50 each
Food £400
Fuel costs £150 each
Internet £30

Those are crazy amounts to be spending.

My car insurance for instance is £240 for the year, that said our council tax is £240! Phone contracts at £50? Get an older phone and a £10 giffgaff sim. The issue is you have to live within your means and that may mean an older car, a 5 year old phone and shop around for food, we spent £60 for this weeks shopping for instance

IGNORE THOSE FIGURES

They were invented by another poster @Ineedaholidayyyy .

maybe she needs to ask for them to be removed by MNHQ

If they cannot manage this small rent between them then they will never ever manage a mortgage. Plus house maintenance costs etc
They need to take harsh look at their incoming and outgoings
It seems they just hoping to be bailed out by parents all the time
They need to solve it themselves

If they don't have childcare costs (and that is an absolute killer for many in FT work) then it's not adding up.

Sure, they're not going to have a luxurious lifestyle on their incomes but with two FT salaries (even on minimum wage) there should be plenty to cover the rent, the bills, food, essential transport (e.g. insurance and running costs on a fairly basic second hand car; bus fare etc.) necessary clothes, plus some small treats like a monthly takeaway or cinema trip or a weekly coffee shop coffee.

Without knowing their budget or indeed if they're paying back student loans, bank loans, credit cards etc., or where their pinch points are or if they've had some major one-off spends (such as an expensive repair bill for a car) it's impossible to know what's going on. But it sounds like they're in a pickle and need a plan to get out of it (one that doesn't rely on assuming they'll get a pay rise).

Managing a household budget - especially when the budget isn't very generous to start with - is incredibly dull and can be really hard work. And when prices rise and wages don't keep up it's so demoralising. But it's essential to make sure you can pay your rent and basic bills each month - even if that means going without the nice stuff. I wonder if they need some support to budget and get a handle on where their money is going.

What won't help in the long run is you/ your daughter's in laws constantly bailing them out without knowing what they're spending £3k+ a month on instead of their rent and having a plan in place to get out of this pickle.

Sorry there’s something else going on here if they’re both working and can’t afford that rent. Stop helping.

Along with everyone body else I agree they must have other outgoings and need to take a hard look at their budget. Sky TV, mobile phone contracts, Netflix, Spotify, Amazon Prime - none necessary yet together probably account for £200-£300 per month. Add in repayments for car leases, potential beauty treatments, new clothes, latest gadgets not surprising they can’t manage. Of course little of this might apply as we don’t know your DD and her fiance. My suggestion would be to go onto the debt free wannabe page on www.moneysavingexpert.com

There they will find a budgeting tool to help them ensure every penny is accounted for and can also ask for help which is non-judgemental. Not a debt management plan but help to get the most out of their money.

In your shoes I would suggest this first and tell them that no further top ups will be forthcoming until they have sorted out their finances. Some hard choices may have to be made but things are not going to get easier expense wise so best they address things now. Good luck OP its hard saying no to your children but sometimes they need to learn for themselves.

Even more ridiculous then . Don’t lend anymore without getting a handle on their outgoings - for all you know they could be gambling away their income .

A lot of posters wouldn’t have to read it multiple times as they would notice that the usernames aren’t the op.

That's quite the leap. Of course I think that everyone should be able to live in good quality affordable housing but how does that equate to being entitled to council housing when you're perfectly capable of paying private rent?

I'm 60 this year by the way, so depending on your definition of me being 'quite young' I rather doubt that I fall into that category by anyone's measure. Oh and no I don't envy anyone living in council housing, anymore than I envy anyone living in a mansion, why would I?

Then you realise this is nothing to do with the economy, it’s nothing to do with overtime. This is two people not managing their disposable income.

your daughter has no business asking you for money, she’s no business wanting to move in with her in-laws, her partner has no business asking his parents,. They both have plenty of disposable income. Plenty, and they are lying about it being lack of overtime. They are adults.

id be asking them where their money is going, what they are spending that two and a half grand after rent they have left every single month.

and no, a 30 min commute doesn’t cost that.

@MySweetGeorgina no they do not have fancy meals out, fancy beauty treatments, fancy holidays etc. Far from it. Yes, they both have car loans. They both need their cars for work. A few months before they moved into their house both their cars were ready for the scrap heap & so it was a necessary expense.

The names are not the same BUT it appears that one poster has copied and pasted the OP's figures. That happens all the time on threads.

Also, some posters search other threads by an OP and find out info there- which they include in their posts.

something a miss here. If they can’t afford that rent they can’t afford a mortgage.

I don't have car payments but
I'm on min wage, paying back some debt and my mortgage/service charges are £600 so more than half their rent
I live alone. I can pay the bills. It doesn't allow for any savings, holidays etc but my mortgage, utilities etc are always paid

it seems like you dont have a full picture or they just have debts and live beyond their needs.
with no childcare cost, with rent of 900pm.. they should be able to pay for at least month to month living expenses without borrowing any money.