To think they call us Karen because they fear us

[InformEducateEntertain]

I absolutely hate the term Karen. It's pejorative and deeply unpleasant.

Middle aged women (of whom I am one and to whom the term is most generally applied) are bloody amazing. Putting us down for our don't give a f**k badass attitude and willingness to fight back strikes me as lazy categorisation.

I'd go as far to say that those who use it are scared by the knowledge that looking the menopause in the eye has given us the courage to have a voice at last.

AIBU?

How does whataboutery support your rather tenuous argument for the continued use of this unpleasant slur?

Some racists punch, kick, stab, rape and shoot black or brown people. Racist plus violence. What's their gendered term?

The term was originally coined to laugh at the type of self-centred person of a certain demographic (and hairstyle) who bullies and belittles often poorly paid service staff, just to get what they want, unfairly. Until you've been on the receiving end of one, you may not have any sympathy.

YANBU

Karen is a misogynist slur designed to shut women (especially those of a certain age!) down and speak us speaking up and standing up for ourselves.

There is a youtuber I used to watch a lot but most of her videos seems to feature the word Karen and I don't watch those because I'm not feeding into the misogyny.

I just don't understand women who use that term at all. It's also horrible for any woman who happens to have that name.

Absolutely, it's a term which doesn't actually acheive anything except maybe making the person saying it feel a bit better, and the person on receipt of it take the other less seriously.

I have never been called a Karen that I know of, but if someone did then I wouldn't give them any credibility. If they said to me 'when you said this/did this I found it rude/offensive because .....' then it might help change behaviors.

It is. It originally began as being a certain type of woman who is nasty and complains about petty things and is often racist.

It's been twisted so that some people mistakenly think it's all middle aged women.

Look, I don't have a term for everything or an answer to everything. I'm just saying, the term came about due to behaviour from a certain type of person, and it has been useful to fight back against that type of behaviour. That's what happens in society. Language evolves. I find it helpful language to bite back against certain behaviour. The fact that some people use it incorrectly is not my problem.

I've never heard. a person of colour be called a Karen. So it's not all middle aged women.

I disagree. As a 20-year old I spent a summer working at McDonald's. The only customers I ever had an issue with was a certain brand of middle age woman. This was before the term Karen was thrown about but I could definitely apply it to them. They looked down their nose at me because I was at McDonald's (between my BSc and my PhD, not that they should have anyway!), and they were very entitled, assuming they had waited more than 5 mins therefore I had forgotten them (even if it was August bank holiday in one of the main services in Cornwall!). Very nasty and aggressive. DH had similar working at a local chippy.

I'm absolutely not saying it was every middle-aged woman; however, I am saying that if any customer was entitled and rude, it was 95% of the time going to be a 'Karen'!

I agree with PPs that it's misogyny and an easy way to dismiss/shut up women.

@MorrisZapp but Karen isn’t only about racism though? That’s definitely a component when you have older white women pulling rank on women of colour in more junior positions.

But it can just as well be directed at other white women or white men etc. It relies on “superior” social status but not necessarily race.

Nor saying it’s OK btw but it is beyond just being about ethnicity.

This. It also started out in the US, so a totally different cultural background. Almost all the examples I’ve seen have been in the US. Though there was a relevant example recently of a woman getting rage in a UK car park because the driver wasn’t deemed “disabled” enough in her eyes. She was raging! That’s what I’d call a Karen. Someone who thinks they are right and acts very privileged, in the way they expect the other person to bow down. An alternative that doesn’t convey gender would be a “twat” but I don’t think they use that in the US so much 🤣

Just because it’s been adopted more widely and very often misused, doesn’t mean it’s not a valid term. Most people know what is meant instantly rather than having to use a whole sentence, and isn’t that the point of slang/shorthand? I do agree that a lot of the misuse does result from misogyny, often internalised in the form of women using it.

I've said this a million times on here so if you're already familiar then skim by.

My name is Karen and I love it. My mum chose it with pure love and yes, it was the early seventies. Not a single thing could ever make me dislike my name. But sexism and ageism enrage me and I'm fully aware that when they say Karen they don't mean me specifically. They mean me and all the girls I was at school with - Cathy, Claire, Debbie, Pamela, Michelle, Tracy, Sarah and Ruth. We're all demographically past shagging value now so we can be collectively dismissed, which should enrage us all.

It means bitch.

This is not how I understand the term. It's not intended to mean bitch. It is a specific term linked to white privilege and racism.

I think this explains the origins a bit better:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-53588201.amp

Its from the US and generally used for women who use their privilege to to get their own way when they are being ridiculous. Eg, complaining about an innocent black person walking through the neighbourhood, asking to speak to the manager to get a refund on a meal they hated but ate all of it and said nothing to anyone before. Sex does come into it, as some of these women exploit the fact that they are a single female feeling threatened by the presence of a black person, mostly men.

Of course, most teenagers and younger people now uses it for anyone that gets annoyed with them or disagrees with them, because theyre at the age where they just want to have the last word or wind up someone even more. if it isn't 'Karen' then it'd just be another term/phrase. Its almost like they use Karen instead of 'OK mum/dad (with exaggerated eye rolling)' to someone that isn't their parent.

Whilst we all have our opinions, I don't think it's as deep as many on MN do.

Useful? For whom?

It's used to scare women into being quiet.

Any opinion or thought can make you "a Karen"

Why isn't there a male version if its about white privilege wouldn't need to be gendered? I see lots of men causing unnecessary problems in an entitled way every day - where is their go to phrase?

Oh is the English language not peppered with slang names referencing women's body parts already then?

You really should avoid saying 'People of colour' in this day and age.

People who are being yelled at by Karens

Yeah it absolutely is.

I don't actually see anything wrong with it as long as it's being used in the right context (which it is isn't always).

What should I say then

I went to school in the 90s with six Sarahs and two Michelles, they aren't that old.

Yup.

Its used as a way to remove any power or authority from women. It functions to encourage people not to listen to a woman as she is 'just a Karen'. It functions to remove any legitimacy from a woman trying to assert a boundary or stand up for herself. It makes a woman a source of ridicule and contempt, rather than some worth listening to or respecting. And if functions, and this is really important, to deter women from standing up for themselves for fear of being called a Karen

I have seen multiple posts on here, and come across RL examples, of women who want to very reasonably stand up for themselves against some sort of anti-social action, but say they are worried about saying anything as ' I don't want to be Karen.'

And that is exactly how it functions and is intended to. Its blatantly misogynistic.