Why do our most prestigious and wealthiest Unis accept so many international students ?

[Berlinerschnauzer]

So said my son’s dad on learning DS2 failed to be offered a place at Cambridge…
I don’t know enough to confirm whether it’s sour grapes or he actually has a point.
Was looking at figures for Oxbridge and was surprised to find that something like 60 odd percent of students (under and post grads) are international. For undergraduates it’s nearly a quarter.
Likewise Edinburgh has 30% international students and is one of the wealthiest unis.
Unlike lower tier unis which don’t have the same deep financial pockets and have to attract foreign students to survive, surely these unis don’t. They could be attracting home grown, talented students who in years to come will contribute massively to the economy rather than returning to their home countries and taking their skills with them. My question is does ex DP have a point or is he spouting bollocks
as per usual ?

UK universities had nothing to do with Brexit. You seem to want to blame someone for your DC not getting what they wanted.

sarahd29 what are you going on about? There are loads of universities offering music with many sitting much closer to OBU academic level. There are also five universities offering courses in ‘music and maths’ - none OXU. To apply to study music at Oxford you need AAA at A level, two essays, one or two compositions, one or two examples of harmony and counterpoint and a five minute audition piece.

Roles eyes.

Are you at Oxford Brookes University? You seem to have a complex about not being in the same academic league as Oxford University.

He'd be better off applying to Imperial.

*rolls

No I am not at Brookes.

I am however very aware that it is now slightly easier to get into St Hughs/Hildas because of the new Music Technology Pathway A level (and theory paper). Music at Oxford is not as hard to get in to as some of the other subjects. Its still very competitvez

Given that OBU and Cardiff are closing their Music and Art departments and making redundancies it is not unrealistic that more people are taking the Music Tech Pathway route or at least attempting to enter.

Thank you, obvs I did not attend Oxford..not even lowly Brookes

Absolutley, no idea why maths are making redundancies at Cardiff. One assumes not enough interest?

I cant get over the land of song closing their Music department. Awful.

I was not suggesting the entrance criteria at Oxford has changed for
Maths, just Music slightly with the introduction of the acceptance of a slightly new pathway acessable to all.

Maybe, in the context of this thread, music may well be one of the subjects which can't attract international students onto their courses, especially Masters degrees.

HRTFT so apologies if someone else has made this point. Scottish residents don't pay fees at Scottish universities with the result that the unis can't afford to take on very many Scottish students because the fees offered by the Scottish government don't cover the costs. Edinburgh University has a very low percentage of Scottish students for this reason. I am a regular visitor to St Andrews and I hear very few Scottish or even UK accents amongst the students in the town. Overseas students are charged £30,000+ in fees; why would cash strapped unis prioritise home students?

My last masters at a London Russel group recently was 60% Indian students and then 35% other overseas. I reckon 1/20 were uk students. I was often confused with "the other white lady"

Fees wise -£16.5k for uk and £25k overseas so not a huge difference.

I am sure you are right and everyone who was previously considering studying music at OBU or Cardiff will now apply to OXU rather than any of the 120 other universities offering a music degree, including several others in the ‘land of song’, or to conservatoires such as The Royal Welsh College of Music and Drama. 🙄

Whatever..

I'm curious which subject.

What fields now really require a PG masters that home students can't do a UG masters in instead?

Universities have always been international.

@ErrolTheDragon it was law -so I suppose uk students would tend to do training contracts or the qualifications with bpp or university of law -so masters levels but not actual Masters(though some throw a dissertation on the end to see us lift for student loans). The llm is more academic so maybe more valuable on overseas students cvs than British students.

That's an interesting change - I did an LLM at a London Russell Group university, and it was 95% English people (not British, because Scotland's legal system is different) and the rest were Australian / N Zealand / one Pakistani. A while ago now, though; I'm mid 40s and did my LLM in 2001.

You just looked at one of the few universities that made profit.Most made a loss last year.

I suspect that you're right about training contracts. Somebody planning to work in the legal system in the UK is probably more likely to do this than to get a masters which would probably not give them any benefit if they had to train later.

Yes of course it is partly the money. But also..

Academic talent is global - there are many bright potential students beyond the UK. Our brightest young people can also apply to study at universities overseas if they choose to. It works both ways, although Brexit has made studying in Europe vastly less affordable.

It strengthens the UK’s international links and soft power.

I suppose it comes down to whether you want a world class education system that is inevitably going to be competitive and attract students from overseas or you want a mediocre one where it's easy for domestic students to get into their preferred institution and there's little to no international competition. The third option is a world class education system for which UK students are always prioritised and only the wealthiest and most academically elite students from overseas are able to gain entry. This is neither ethical nor economically viable in today's world.

I think your third option is perfectly ethical and economically sensible.

It's not remotely ethically sensible - not without a complete overhaul of the national economy.

As for ethical, well that's a matter of politics isn't it. Certainly it is not desirable from an educational standpoint.

*not remotely economically sensible