Why do our most prestigious and wealthiest Unis accept so many international students ?

[Berlinerschnauzer]

So said my son’s dad on learning DS2 failed to be offered a place at Cambridge…
I don’t know enough to confirm whether it’s sour grapes or he actually has a point.
Was looking at figures for Oxbridge and was surprised to find that something like 60 odd percent of students (under and post grads) are international. For undergraduates it’s nearly a quarter.
Likewise Edinburgh has 30% international students and is one of the wealthiest unis.
Unlike lower tier unis which don’t have the same deep financial pockets and have to attract foreign students to survive, surely these unis don’t. They could be attracting home grown, talented students who in years to come will contribute massively to the economy rather than returning to their home countries and taking their skills with them. My question is does ex DP have a point or is he spouting bollocks
as per usual ?

Admissions tutors care about Grade 8 Trombone if you want to study Music, perhaps about backpacking around Nepal if you want to study Geography or Geology, museums in Italy if you want to study History or Art History.

The point is that extra curricular engagement needs to be relevant and applicants need to have learned something meaningful from it.

But obviously you don't need to travel abroad for history or art history either , and experience in geography and geology can be done much closer to home.

Which universities are “massively wealthy”? Most universities in the UK are in deficit or only just breaking even.

And your son’s father (plus most PP) may not realise that the numbers of places for UK students and for international students are different quotas - International students don’t take home students’ places. They’re different categories in universities’ targets and planning.

But you know, universities cost money to run especially as the UK system is world-leading. And if UK students aren’t prepared to pay the actual cost of their education and UK people won’t pay the actual cost either, aren’t UK students lucky that international students subsidise them and pay for their education?

It's worth saying is that many undergraduate "international" students have actually been educated here in the UK, in private schools. In this case their English would be excellent, obviously. The same is true of many Masters students, and masters courses normally have a pretty high requirement for an English qualification.
I used to work in a Russell Group university and know this to be the case there, though I suppose it might not be true in a less prestigious institution.

Well yes but the post I was referring to spoke about extra curriculars. Grade 8 for a music degree is not an extra curricular.

And tutors for art history are well aware that visiting museums in Italy costs money and is a marker of privilege as much as motivation. They are not going to be more impressed by that than by someone who has shown equal motivation in other (more affordable) ways, such as reading books, attending lectures, listening to podcasts etc. The point is that applicants do not need to spend money to buy themselves experiences to put on their personal statement.

As has been mentioned, international students pay way more in tuition fees than UK students, but looking at it another way, the UK's population is less than 1% of the global population but according to your figures, between 40% and 70% of the students are domestic, so is there really much of a bias? You also have to remember that UK universities have a very high international reputation as does a British degree, so that will attract potential overseas students with the wealth and academic ability.

I think your hubby is having the case of sour grapes. My daughter has just got accepted to Oxford and we're just a teacher and admin staff. My daughter's friend has just got accepted at Cambridge and they're just an ordinary family.
The Russell group universities do take a lot of foreign students but people are awarded on their merit.

Why?

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Universities don't discriminate on socio-economic grounds. They like it if you've been to Italy to look at museums and they like it if you've been to your local museum. Etc.

Showing motivation for Art History can't be done just by reading books, listening to podcasts and attending lectures. You do actually need to engage with objects! Fortunately in the UK the heritage and museum sector is huge and dense and everyone can find a museum or National Trust property etc to spend time in.

I live in Oxford. Interestingly entry criteria for the Oxford Colleges has loosened recently. Locally They have spent millions on the Oxford Brookes student village but because more can now get into the Ox Uni Colleges, less are going to Oxford Brookes. Many of the buildings at Brookes are empty as people flock to the more well known alternative.

Business is business !!

Not just the wealthiest. The financial model of UK universities relies heavily on international student fees, which effectively subsidize the education of domestic students. This is particularly true for high-cost programs like medicine, engineering, and veterinary medicine. Recent government policies, simply hostile towards international students, have led to a significant decline in enrollment. This has exacerbated financial difficulties for many UK universities - over quarter of them are cutting staff.

A- no fiancé's are not a consideration, they want the best of the best
B - we get asked about attendance of international students regularly, which gets reported for visa purposes
C - attendance to lectures is a requirement and students wouldn't be able to pass exams otherwise anyway.

Medicine does not rely on international school fees. Unlike other courses, only a small percentage of medical students are international (7.5%) and this number is controlled - universities cannot offer more medical school places.

In terms of volunteering for medical school applicants - most medical schools are unimpressed with ‘I volunteered for nine months in a care home, I shadowed a GP for a week and I spent five days doing work experience in A&E’. Such a statement in your application would likely count against you. They want to see that you have reflected on the experience and what you have learnt from it.

It seems unlikely that Oxford Brookes are competing with Oxford University unless there are some confused students with poor research skills out there.

They can charge them more money. It's as simple as that. Many UK students with AAA are rejected in favour of international students who sometimes even have slightly lower grades eg. AA* A.

No they aren’t. UK students and International students are different quotas.

A lot of the Cambridge Mathmos, Scientists, Computer Scientists and Musicians come from abroad because they are the best in the world and Cambridge has enough international repute to allow only the best

If the OPs son has not excelled in his supra-curricular on at least a national level, chances are low. There's a lot of disappointed parents at this time of year.

...actually OPs son is pretty amazing for a bodstandard state, now Ive actually bothered to read all her posts

If he is truly determined, maybe wait for his 4x A star and reapply to the other one, do something engineering related while he waits and more supra curricular

It must be very hard, knowing that he is truly talented, but if his love is indeed engineering, I. C. Is actually a very good substitute, as he surely must have a place there?

Much more than this - £50K or more

It's undoubtedly easier to get a place on any particular course as an international student - the fees differential is massive. DS1 is at uni, and as a home student is paying £9,500 fees per year and a £450 college fee. The fee is the same for all courses for home students. For international students the cost per year varies massively depending on the course - international students reading medicine pay over £70,000 per year. International students pay an additional college fee of between £11,000 and £13,000 a year. So an international student on the cheapest undergrad course will be paying about £40,000 a year, and on the most expensive course about £72,500 a year. That's between four and seven times the home fee.

Maybe some finance masters/MBAs. In my field all the major universities (Oxford, LSE, imperial, Edinburgh) charge around £30-£35k.

For Oxbridge you then have another 10-15K college fees

I can promise you that like Cardiff m, parts of brookes are closed because of this. Oxford is not as
prestigious as you think.