Why do our most prestigious and wealthiest Unis accept so many international students ?

[Berlinerschnauzer]

So said my son’s dad on learning DS2 failed to be offered a place at Cambridge…
I don’t know enough to confirm whether it’s sour grapes or he actually has a point.
Was looking at figures for Oxbridge and was surprised to find that something like 60 odd percent of students (under and post grads) are international. For undergraduates it’s nearly a quarter.
Likewise Edinburgh has 30% international students and is one of the wealthiest unis.
Unlike lower tier unis which don’t have the same deep financial pockets and have to attract foreign students to survive, surely these unis don’t. They could be attracting home grown, talented students who in years to come will contribute massively to the economy rather than returning to their home countries and taking their skills with them. My question is does ex DP have a point or is he spouting bollocks
as per usual ?

If that were strictly true they wouldn’t be charging north of £30k a year (sometimes significantly more depending on course) for international students, as at that cost you are eliminating a significant portion of the most talented students.

Alongside 24/48 hr exams who knows who is writing the answers!

I don't know what type of course you're referring to but definitely not the Cambridge engineering which I think is what the OPs dc was trying for!

It's not all about money
There's also better work ethic, better behaviour, better grades and outcomes.

Of course fee income matters. Cambridge had a £53million deficit last year!

No not just the money. Sometimes the international students are actually better than the domestic ones. Because, for example, they haven't been through our joke A-levels.

But then it is a question of how many international students they accept for more fees as they know they can accept more without lowering standards. They are not allowed to reduce uk student places in favour of international ones. They still have to accept a certain number of UK students.

One thing that has not been emphasised much is that a whole industry of tutors and firms has grown up showing university applicants how to burnish their CVs with irrelevencies like voluntary work, sports achievements, entrepreneurial skills and interesting activities and travel; and to teach them interview skills so they make the maximum impression with these things as well as their course aspirations. Certainly in competitive subjects like medicine, applications get nowhere unless the kids have parents willing to spend several thousand pounds on these parasites, and the activities they promote.

@TriesNotToBeCynical

That’s shocking - especially the travel bit as not everyone has the money or opportunity to travel.
Re volunteering, do universities check up that the applicants have done the volunteering that they claim to have done?

The answer to your question is easy: the maximum.

Littoralzone · Yesterday 20:44
When fees were first introduced and then upped, the government assumed there would be competition between universities pushing down the fees they charged (the fees the government set are the maximum they can charge, not the amount they must). So universities with more perceived value would be able to charge more, whereas others would charge less to attract more students, Of course all the universities immediately charged the maximum.

That is such an interesting example of the law of unintended consequences.

I have seen these companies advertised but I don’t know a single medical applicant who has spent money on this but they all have at least one offer or are now studying medicine. So you certainly do not need it.

Pretty sure that's not really the case for home students. In many years of reading and contributing to HE threads here, the vast majority of posters who've had kids successful in their applications to competitive courses counsel against such firms. There have been cases where the parents have stumped up, with the best of intentions to help their kid but without the desired outcome and subsequent feedback was 'appeared to have been tutored'.

The travel bit would be shocking if it was actually true.
Competitive courses are interested in activities which show genuine engagement with the subject and really don't give a damn about extracurriculars.

That is where universities like York got into financial difficulties. When there was a ready supply of international students they invested a lot in the estate to house them. Then as supply dropped they find themselves overcommitted.

There is an industry of tutors for sure, but most of what they are selling is snake oil.

You do not need extra curriculars, travel, or sport to get into any university course. There is a persistent myth that you do (and has been for at least 20 odd years - I remember my school believed that part of my Oxford interview would be about things like music and debating).

Admissions tutors literally do not care if you play the trombone to grade 8 or have backpacked around Nepal or gone to visit museums in Italy. They care about your engagement with the subject and academic potential. For a tiny number of courses (eg vet medicine) there may be specific work experience/volunteering required which will then be set out clearly on the uni website.

Money

Interesting. When I was doing interviews in the North Midlands, a long time ago now, about 70% seemed to have done these things. Glad if they've gone out of fashion.

The idea is being a volunteer in a care home teaches medical students about Real People. Don't know if that is woke or just arrogant.

The idea is being a volunteer in a care home teaches medical students about Real People. Don't know if that is woke or just arrogant.

Idk...maybe at least it might put off some who aren't suited!

There are plenty of jobs within medicine for people who lack empathy, compassion and patience!

I noticed over the time between when my eldest DC applied to university and the youngest that the standards of the university accommodation has gone from basic with shared bathroom to luxury with ensuite and very expensive - and much more luxury where there are a lot of international students.
OP's DC was a potential Cambridge engineer - far, far less potential for cheating.

I do joke that some universities are an accommodation enterprise with a side line in education.

That is not a positive statement about the medical profession.

OP's DC was a potential Cambridge engineer - far, far less potential for cheating.

None, I'd have thought. The interview can't be cheated on, nor can the exams.

There's a lot of stuff completely irrelevant to the OPs original question on this thread. Even if there were no international students at all, by far the likeliest outcome of any application is that they'll be going somewhere else ...fortunately there's lots of other great alternatives at other U.K. unis so I'm sure her DS will be fine.

Admissions tutors care about Grade 8 Trombone if you want to study Music, perhaps about backpacking around Nepal if you want to study Geography or Geology, museums in Italy if you want to study History or Art History.

The point is that extra curricular engagement needs to be relevant and applicants need to have learned something meaningful from it.