Why do our most prestigious and wealthiest Unis accept so many international students ?

[Berlinerschnauzer]

So said my son’s dad on learning DS2 failed to be offered a place at Cambridge…
I don’t know enough to confirm whether it’s sour grapes or he actually has a point.
Was looking at figures for Oxbridge and was surprised to find that something like 60 odd percent of students (under and post grads) are international. For undergraduates it’s nearly a quarter.
Likewise Edinburgh has 30% international students and is one of the wealthiest unis.
Unlike lower tier unis which don’t have the same deep financial pockets and have to attract foreign students to survive, surely these unis don’t. They could be attracting home grown, talented students who in years to come will contribute massively to the economy rather than returning to their home countries and taking their skills with them. My question is does ex DP have a point or is he spouting bollocks
as per usual ?

If you think UK universities are businesses, you can't know much about how businesses work.

We only have 5 or so private uni's that are indeed businesses, you wont have heard of any of them, perhaps Regents University you might have heard of. That is indeed a businesses Oxford, Hull , Bristol, none of the usual Unis are businesses and its nonsense to call them such.

A mixture of both. A lot of the Asian market are looking to Australia (UK unis also benefitted from a temporary bump during Australia's longer pandemic lockdown that is now reversing).

China has invested heavily in its universities so they have been getting better and the appeal of studying abroad is lessening. The strategy is similar to one pursued by Japan, which used to send a much higher proportion of students abroad. Their universities got better, a lot of their academics would've been educated abroad at prestigious institutions but then taught the next generation and they moved up the rankings, so more students stayed at home, and so on.

Plus there's been a tightening of the belt for a lot of the Chinese middle class making tjeir kids studying abroad for less viable.

Ok, I was trying to be helpful. Your son could complain, it doesn't have to be "you"

Thank you loonyloo that’s very interesting.

Ok sorry I read that in a hurry and totally missed that your son wouldn't be able to complain. My fault there. Maybe you could help him make a complaint in his own name?

I think the PP was saying that her autistic child is unable to complain. Mine wouldn’t be able to do it either.

Yes I hold my hands up there, I missed that part, then re-read and replied again to Ubertomusic

There are also other factors. For example a lot of Nigerian students used to come to UK universities but cannot afford it anymore due to the fall in the value of Nigerian currency.

Not in Scotland. Scottish govt has barely raised University funding 8n years. Scottish students are missing out on places because the universities need the money they can get from o/s students. However, rhetoric on immigration and the state of the UK generally will be putting international students off. We will start to see universities fail. Many are already existing on a knife edge.

They can't get their whole families into the UK as dependents any more.

Either
a) to gain foreign student fees
Or
b) they are hoping to get the best brains from around the world (Oxford and cambridge).

The number of places in Scottish Universities for Scottish Students is set by the Scottish Government. They are not missing out due to international students, or rUK students, they are missing out because of the cap on places funded by the Scottish Government.

That was only allowed for a couple of years.

Yes, I acknowledged my error upthread. The poster I was replying to said England and I typed the UK automatically.

I suppose my colleague was a summerborn, because I remember how surprised I was when he told me his age, and I combined it with few other anecdotal pieces to imprecise observation.

I did try to check that before posting, but both Reddit and Wikipedia gave me maps where the whole UK was marked as 17. (Looking at them now, they aren't really trustworthy, for my country they show 16 which would be true for someone in special needs vocational track, not in A-level equivalent track)

Anyway. It still means that in standard situation British teens leave school one year earlier than I am used to (school year when people reach 18/19), and with an epidemic of deferred school entry we face now (we have the same cut off at August/September, but April/May born boys are routinely being deferred now to not be the youngest) we are getting 20yos high school graduates (which I see as a problem, not as an advantage).

However, together with keeping the general education the whole high school (for the academic track), the students really end up on average 1 and something year older with a full extra year of learning.

I am not saying our system is necessarily better, it has it's disadvantages and problems. My point is that international students are coming at different ages and from different learning paths, and some of them are older.

I would hope that the UK universities are starting at the level expected at UK high schools, so international students having a slight advantage doesn't really matter.

Finally. Someone saying something remotely sensible. The £9250 doesn’t cut it. The real cost of educating an UG home students is £15000. So where do we find the difference. Foreign UGs and PGTs. Oh. And I work for an RG.

Its the same worldwide.
Uni of Sydney is 46% international students. They contribute 78% (!) of the student revenue.
Uni is now a business, as is pretty much everything in the world. The rich can buy whatever they want, including a degree from a 'prestigious' university.

Finally? Loads of people have said the same thing on the thread. Most people, in fact.

No problem.

Life is a struggle as it is for ASD people, without the enormous stress of making complaints.

I was just making a point that UK unis are not value for money, with just a few exceptions. I'd actually prefer more contact hours rather than any services. I cannot understand how you could study eg philosophy or psychology or literature etc without much discussion not just with your fellow students but with professors.

You might want to enquire about advocacy organisations should something similar come up again. An advocate could raise the issue on her behalf.

And look at her granting you a power of attorney.

I apologise for my peevish response. I have a kneejerk reaction to generalisations.

It is unlikely that ALL English undergraduates are immature and relatively ignorant. Those at the top of the bell curve will already be independent learners who read widely and deeply. The problem maybe lies in the bulge where students who are used to being led through the A level syllabus and just do what they’re told can feel a bit adrift when they start university. I’m sure most of them catch up though. It’s just bad luck if you have run into a bunch of them at the wrong time.

I’m no great fan of the current school system here, particularly in the humanities. The curriculum is too full for teachers to do all the interesting and nice-to-know educating they would really like to do. But students who really want to will always find a way.

A mix of both.
Seems like (some) postgrad masters degrees are more the 'cash cows' populated mainly by international students. Many of the better U.K. STEM students will do an integrated undergrad masters - it's the normal path for many/most at oxbridge, and obviously makes most sense loan-wise.

More and more UK privately educated children are applying for university overseas and the US is very popular. A lot of children at the most expensive UK private schools have parents with very deep pockets and an education and cultural hinterland that makes them great candidates for US universities that like applicants that have done a lot.

@CuriousQuestioningGal yes i get that - I think my friend felt that there was too much emphasis on the support side - those were the areas she felt seemed to have more emphasis but actually if im being honest she was bored and felt it was a bit of a non job - and yet she noted that all the academic staff seemed totally put on and were covering huge amounts - including stuff she felt was more should have been the responsibility of support services- i think part of the issue is if i today was paying £40k or so and it was debt for years and years plus the loans for just getting by ( and I know its choice) i would feel pretty short changed at many places- my son actually gave up in 2021 -- 16 months into a RG uni aged 22 due to covid regulations which was preceded by the lecturers strike as he felt the offering was pathetic during that time and to be honest I couldn't blame him- luckily he had already 5 years of a career behind him that he went straight back into but obviously is now facingpaying off £28k of student debt - he feels incredibly annoyed that his generation had what he felt was a totally sub standard offering and acquired debt!!

It’s money. Your ex must must amazingly thick if he can’t work this out.