Why do our most prestigious and wealthiest Unis accept so many international students ?

[Berlinerschnauzer]

So said my son’s dad on learning DS2 failed to be offered a place at Cambridge…
I don’t know enough to confirm whether it’s sour grapes or he actually has a point.
Was looking at figures for Oxbridge and was surprised to find that something like 60 odd percent of students (under and post grads) are international. For undergraduates it’s nearly a quarter.
Likewise Edinburgh has 30% international students and is one of the wealthiest unis.
Unlike lower tier unis which don’t have the same deep financial pockets and have to attract foreign students to survive, surely these unis don’t. They could be attracting home grown, talented students who in years to come will contribute massively to the economy rather than returning to their home countries and taking their skills with them. My question is does ex DP have a point or is he spouting bollocks
as per usual ?

The fees for international students are absolutely staggering. Also, well known universities can attract the most talented students from all over the world.

Yes, the UK is losing a lot of students to Australia in particular

The decline of the aristocracy was after the First World War. But if you think English education is bad, you should try the SNPs version of Scottish Education… Though in terms of maturity lots of Scottish students start university age 17 (or occasionally 16) - no drunken freshers week for my DC!

Well yes I was speaking generally about the Chinese students.

I'd personally have assumed that the UK would still be a more attractive proposition for that reason too. But the fall in applicants from India was also about the message that the change in rules sent out (that they weren't really welcome, basically)

I'm actually thinking about Scotland for my DC2, but only because of a particular course that offers combining music with any subjects including STEM. So there must be something good in Scottish education 😁

Ah because they’re not massively wealthy already…and I say that as a senior finance professional at one of the unis you speak of!

international student fees are one of the only levers we have to increase income to cross subsidise. Research and domestic students do not cover their costs, ever.

Because all universities, without exception and especially our oldest and most prestigious ones, are a form of consumption. They are commercial exercises. They sell courses on the international market. They are a place our young go to to spend money, and pay for the privilege. Sorry if that sounds cynical but it's the conclusion I've come to. Lots of unis are struggling financially because they have lost out in the competition for foreign students.

A 17-year-old would still be at school in the UK. They wouldn’t start university until 18 at the youngest. 19 if they took a gap year.

Once you make a factual error like this — and double down on it — it is hard to take you seriously.

Some universities are good. St Andrews sits at the top of various tables. But the different education system means most degrees are four years long instead of three - though A level students (and Advanced Higher) can often choose to skip the first year.

The extent of student support services isn't anything like those provided in the UK, so costs are lower. It's the same in other European countries (I can't comment much on outside Europe as I am less familiar with them). I used to work in a languages dept and our students would routinely contact us in the first week of so of their year abroad really upset at what the perceived as a lack of care from the host university (e.g., nobody would help them find somewhere to live as university staff just don't see it as part of their remit).

I'm from another European country and did my undergrad at home, and postgraduate degrees here. I remember being surprised at the level of expectation from my British student friends at what they expected the uni to do for them. Stuff that I would've assumed to be within the remit of the health service and things like that. Also, in my home country the state provides a greater proportion of the teaching costs to the unis so they don't need to charge students as much. I'm not sure about the level of state subsidy in Germany

This. Universities everywhere I know of are businesses and have been for years.

The University of Edinburgh has had a major drop in financial reserves and has a new voluntary redundancy program. The Scottish Government pays very little for Scottish students (who don't pay fees themselves) so they need international students to cover costs.

Not in Scotland. My DC didn’t turn 18 until over halfway through their first year. It is sufficiently common that the Student bars have to be aware enough to keep a close eye out for 17 year olds as they are monitored. DC also got priority for student halls because of it.

My disabled DC1 went to a highly rated RG uni - he received virtually zero support so the fees cannot be justified by "support services". Also, pure maths doesn't need labs or libraries etc and the number of contact hours was appalling for the fees charged. I still shudder at the thought that we had to pay so much money for that.

When fees were first introduced and then upped, the government assumed there would be competition between universities pushing down the fees they charged (the fees the government set are the maximum they can charge, not the amount they must). So universities with more perceived value would be able to charge more, whereas others would charge less to attract more students, Of course all the universities immediately charged the maximum.

Why would you have deprived yourself of a masters degree just because others aren’t making the most of it? Other students not turning up to lectures (which aren’t interactive typically) doesn’t impact your learning.

International brain power makes every country more vibrant and interesting

True. The original poster said England specifically. I should have followed my own advice and checked my facts.

I have one DC who won’t be going to university due to academic ability. Further education colleges make universities seem like the promised land.

Most of which they couldn't just sell.

Oxford, Cambridge and all the Uni's you are thinking of are PUBLIC RESEARCH INSTITUTIONS, not corporations.

Lots of unis are struggling financially because they have lost out in the competition for foreign students.

Is that because the foreign students are studying at universities in their own country or because they are choosing other countries apart from UK?

I'd suggest you complain about the lack of disability support as it should be provided. I'm sorry to hear it wasn't. Info about making a complaint can be found at https://www.officeforstudents.org.uk/for-students/ofs-and-students/complaints/complaints-about-a-university-or-college/
And info on what should be provided for disability support is here: https://www.officeforstudents.org.uk/for-providers/equality-of-opportunity/support-for-disabled-students/

About the fact it was a pure Maths degree and should've cost less - the fees for home students are the same across the board, regardless of course and uni ranking, to avoid a situation where students from low income backgrounds are effectively locked out of certain degrees and universities. Basically cheaper-to-teach courses (pure Maths, history for example) subsidise the more expensive ones (engineering and languages for example)

Going back 20 years but even when I was an A-level student at my local town college I remember someone asking our tutor why our relatively small college had so many students from China and they explained it’s because they pay a bloody fortune to attend.

Thats' strange as every UK uni has a disablity officer and the student union even can provide support.

I know cut backs are severe, but support for young people is far superior in Uni than it is in the real world.

It doesn't work like this - parents can't complain and are effectively cut off when a child turns 16 or 18 (depending on circumstances). My autistic DC is unable to complain about anything.

Anyway, it's derailing the thread.