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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I know this isn’t the first thread, but the NHS is close to collapse

221 replies

Adropintheocean1 · 30/01/2025 21:54

I don’t want to be to outting, but basically I have some symptoms. GP suspected a condition due to these symptoms, and referred me to the hospital.

My hospital (large city) said we don’t test for this condition, please refer to x London hospital. London hospital said we are the only hospital dealing with this diagnosis, we are overwhelmed, we can’t see her. Suspected illness is not life threatening or limiting however does cause horrible chronic symptoms that need to be managed. So that’s it… GP seemed genuinely embarrassed. Basically if I want a diagnosis I need to go privately (can’t afford it.) GP said for a relatively poor area, his making as many private referrals as NHS ones.

Is it not time we got angry about this?

OP posts:
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Livelovebehappy · 31/01/2025 00:56

I’m private, after many years of having absolute trust in the NHS. But I’ve recently seen first hand via family members how utterly broken and useless it is. I just no longer trust them. The admistration is totally chaotic, with no joined up processes, so issues can and do get missed. It really is dire. I’ve now take responsibility for my own well-being and opted private.

FagsMagsandBags · 31/01/2025 00:58

I spent a lot of time in hospital last year, about ten or eleven weeks, two stays of just over a month and a two week stay, and it seems like everyone is hanging on by a thread. When I was on a general ward one of the things that was clear was that there are a very large number of elderly people in hospital and this is a problem. I'm obviously not saying that elderly people shouldn't be in hospital and that "they're taking up beds" but the problem is that once they are in it's hard to get them home again because they need more care than is available so they stay in a hospital bed longer than they should while care packages are being arranged and that can take forever because there aren't care packages or, etc. I think one of the biggest problems the NHS has is that they are expected to be both health and care service and that's just not possible. We need more money for the NHS but also a lot more for our care services which means paying carers more, etc. I can't see the latter happening because we chronically underpay our carers, so I'm not sure who we fix the NHS problem.

I have nothing to complain about but that's because I'm in recovery from cancer but still having immunotherapy. This means I want to see a GP it happens on the same day, I also had emergency life saving surgery last year which means that that particular part of my health care is always asap as well. For the moment. I wish that everyone was offered the same level and speed of care and am fully aware of how lucky I have been. Obviously unlucky as well but I'm here and alive, so I prefer to focus on the lucky part. When it works there is service better but it's working less and less because it's been deliberately underfunded and ground down for years now. It can be fixed but I'm far from convinced that there is the will to do that.

Livelovebehappy · 31/01/2025 01:03

EmpressOfSoreen · 31/01/2025 00:50

I don’t think my ADHD or my husbands back pain should necessarily be priority issues.

But both of these things are health problems aren't they? A health service should treat health problems. In the case of back pain - my father had his ignored by his GP, now he uses a walker. That is, he is an older adult who has lost mobility. Christ knows what that's going to cost in the long run - he can't walk now. Had he received timely appropriate care this wouldn't have happened. I've looked into it myself - he just needed a splint on his heel. Ffs. And that's before you even start considering the human cost.

Another friend of his also had back pain, again ignored for ages until the NHS got together some kind of half arsed pain management plan, too little too late. He was in agony, ended up on tramadol, very fucking swift decline as he was out of his mind with pain and opiates by then, dead within months. This was a guy who had till then worked years beyond state pension age and was otherwise fit and well, but he nicked his back and well that was it for him, in a country with a shit healthcare system.

But tbh, the ADHD thing is part of the reason why the NHS struggles. Everyone and his dog now seemingly wants testing and referring for an ADHD diagnosis. It’s madness. The waiting lists are huge.

BeLilacSloth · 31/01/2025 01:43

Agreed. My DD is at a specialised hospital for her condition and they wouldn’t operate on her when she desperately needed it. She ended up staying at our local hospital for 3 weeks with them ringing the specialised one everyday to operate which was refused. I had to ring up everyday for 2 months when they eventually carried out the op. DD developed a huge issue after the op, again continued to ring for help, they did nothing. Ended up making a huge complaint until finally seen and resolved. I still can’t believe they left a disabled 3 year old like this!

coxesorangepippin · 31/01/2025 01:46

Write to your MP. Ask them to raise it in Parliament.
^
Aye that'll do it

ForeverLoveCeltic · 31/01/2025 02:23

What is it that no one is comfortable talking about?

lilytuckerpritchet · 31/01/2025 02:41

lilythesheep · 30/01/2025 22:04

I went to see my GP last year about a rare (physical) condition which I’ve managed for a long time but which flared up to a point where I was completely unable to walk. The GP basically said “well it’s not life threatening so I’m afraid it would be a 6 month wait to see anyone - can you go private?” She was really apologetic about it and said she felt ashamed to be pushing me down that route but she felt I should know the realistic wait for care.

Yes chronic pain is not taken seriously as it doesn't kill you.

ForeverLoveCeltic · 31/01/2025 02:41

Correct, stakeholder capitalism.

HoppityBun · 31/01/2025 02:55

Funding healthcare is a global problem. Getting angry about it is pointless. The government is seeking to engage the country in a consultation about the NHS. Educate yourself about the issues and about how different countries manage. Be aware that many people regard taxation to fund anything as the equivalent of theft and do not accept that healthy people should fund sick people. As a whole, people want Scandinavian levels of services with Singapore levels of taxation. More and more conditions are treatable and are treated than was dreamed of in 1945

https://change.nhs.uk/en-GB/

https://change.nhs.uk/en-GB

ForeverLoveCeltic · 31/01/2025 02:55

So some medical staff are telling the truth now about the "safe and effective "? I suppose they've been forced into it. The government and Big Pharma will be raging.

3luckystars · 31/01/2025 03:04

Well it was probably a good idea at the time it was set up but there are hundreds of thousands, maybe millions more people now and it’s not sustainable. I don’t know what the answer is.

XWKD · 31/01/2025 03:34

The NHS was always patchy, but it wasn't the worst. Now it's not fit for purpose.

Moodliftrequired · 31/01/2025 03:42

Lavenderblossoms · 31/01/2025 00:31

Try having American health care!

People always say “ look how bad the American model is” but it’s a ridiculous argument because there are so many health care systems that work well on our doorstep; France, Belgium, Spain, the Netherlands to name a few!

Many of these systems have obligatory health insurance and the insurance companies are highly regulated by government and are non-profit-making. It’s totally different to the USA. Patients in these EU countries are means tested and they pay a reasonable fee to see the doctor which is something like €20-€30 and they are reimbursed for that money according to their income. This system ensures that the very poor and the disabled pay nothing, or next to nothing.

Of course taxes are higher to pay for it but what is more important than health? Everything else we do depends upon it; our family, our employment, our dc, our wellbeing, our ability to contribute to society, our productivity as a group of nations.

If people are charged reasonable means-tested sums for healthcare, they tend not to abuse the system so much by missing appointments or trashing A &E.
It also encourages people to take more responsibility for their health.

Plenty of people regularly pay out £100s and £1000s to pay vet fees for their pets, why therefore would it be so outrageous to charge £25 to see a doctor for ourselves, a good percentage of which is reimbursed?

It’s a bit of a skewed attitude isn’t it in the uk looking in from the outside? A multi-millionaire or someone earning £800,000 per year can rock up to A&E and be treated free of charge without contributing a cent?! Why should that be possible? Many patients who pay for private fancy hospitals to treat them get taken off to an NHS hospital if anything goes wrong with their operation. Who pays for that?

A Spanish friend of mine can’t believe our attitude in the UK; I can’t explain the phrases she uses very well, but she says it’s a question of pride, self -respect and personal responsibility that you look after your own health by contributing financially towards it. Like why wouldn’t you duh? It’s the most important thing to invest in?

It’s a fantastic aspiration to have free healthcare for all at souce but it’s no longer practicable, and government subsidised, heavily regulated obligatory insurance is the way to go, so that drug companies and private health care providers can’t exploit patients or dictate how things work with a purely commercial imperative.

I fear that the private - public systems in the UK have already been primed to go down the US route though sadly. And instead of having an integrated system for all, and access to the best doctors, equipment and hospitals for all, we are building a two-tier unjust system.

It’s true that people who pay higher taxes and pay for health care have less disposable income, but what’s more important, your health or that of your child, or buying new curtains?

Obviously there are those for whom the burden of cost would be too much, and in a properly subsidised system, they are protected and subsidised by those of us who can contribute.

Don’t tell me though when I see handbag threads on here, or discussions about what jumper to buy from Boden at £170 a pop, that there isn’t the money out there to pay reasonable fees for subsided, well regulated, and managed health care. We just have our priorities wrong.

Rachmorr57 · 31/01/2025 03:43

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

AlleyRose · 31/01/2025 06:19

I've had to pay privately to take my DD to see a gynaecologist to get her diagnosed with endometriosis. Average 8-10 year diagnosis time on the NHS.

I've had to pay nearly £1000 for consult, mri and follow up. Absolutely disgraceful but I literally had no other options.

I've got private health for me through work. I'd seriously have to think about accepting a job now that didn't offer it.

grace2025 · 31/01/2025 07:22

Just to say paying through an insurance scheme doesn't alter the service just the cost. There probably wouldn't be separate private appointments then.

HRTQueen · 31/01/2025 07:37

I am not sure it would be hugely politically damaging for a government or the opposition party to propose an alternative to the NHS. 10 years ago yes now not so much but it would have to be presented why it’s needed and in simple terms

Opinions are changing simply because more and more people are getting such poor and very often inadequate care

what will be difficult to sell is that we all have to pay more especially when so many people are struggling to makes ends meet

but the worship of the NHS isn’t what it was,At work young staff are often passionate about the NHS but more experienced staff less so they have seen the changes, experienced the damage of underfunding, poor management etc

the NHS was a fantastic healthcare service but that is long gone, we don’t want it propped up again by huge loans or more areas of service run by private companies for profit we can argue about the reasons why or learn from them. we are where we are now and it’s time to make drastic changes I just wish Labour were brave enough they are in the position to be

The government are aware of this that’s why they are banging on about free at the point of service and how amazing it is that we have this. It isn’t when the service is so poor

its time for honesty and also for the NHS to stop being used as a political weapon

Renovationhell · 31/01/2025 07:39

I’ve just waited 12 months for a gyne appointment!

The car park was a disgarace, no spaces for miles outside of the hospital (which kindly was covered in permit only parking). Ques in every area of the hospital. Never seen it so busy!

ThankCrunchieItsFryday · 31/01/2025 07:44

Money gets wasted left right and centre in NHS and its not sustainable. My elderly aunt had an NHS appointment which she cancelled (I was with her when she cancelled the appointment) and they called her to say she missed her appointment.

A lot of money getting pumped into the NHS pays expensive agency fees for agency staff.

There’s a massive amount of money wasted in ‘incentives’ to recruit staff in some NHS Trust. Nurses get golden handshakes of a few thousand pounds and doctors a few thousand pounds more just to join a NHS Trust. Link here: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/may/21/nurses-in-england-nhs-offered-golden-hellos-as-trusts-try-to-ease-staff-crisis

There is a “hotbed of bullying, racism and toxic behaviour” within the UK’s nursing regulator which is putting the public at risk and endangering nurses and midwives, a damning report has found. Link here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7287gxn7m3o.amp

The NHS is not close to collapse. It has collapsed!

Nurse walking in a ward

UK nurse regulator condemned over toxic culture - BBC News

A damning report finds bullying, racism and incompetence in an organisation overseeing UK nurses and midwives.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7287gxn7m3o.amp

StarDolphins · 31/01/2025 07:47

Far too many people using it, far too many people not taking responsibility for their health and more importantly, absolutely beyond terribly run with billions wasted.

Chucking more money at it without a massive, massive overhaul is utterly stupid & pointless.

ThankCrunchieItsFryday · 31/01/2025 07:58

More than 1,300 GPs have benefited from 'golden hello' payments worth up to £20,000 under an NHS scheme to encourage doctors to become partners for the first time. Link here: https://www.gponline.com/golden-hello-scheme-drives-surge-new-gp-partners/article/1740230

Despite this, doctors still want more and more money.

Golden hello scheme drives surge in new GP partners

More than 1,300 GPs have benefited from 'golden hello' payments worth up to £20,000 under an NHS scheme to encourage doctors to become partners for the first time.

https://www.gponline.com/golden-hello-scheme-drives-surge-new-gp-partners/article/1740230

ForeverDelayedEpiphany · 31/01/2025 08:04

cocoloco23 · 31/01/2025 00:44

YABU. It is way way beyond time to get angry.

I’ve been angry and frightened for years about this, ever since I was admitted to hospital as a child when we were n holiday in the US. Suspected appendicitis. I was screaming in pain and they wouldn’t even look at me until my dad handed over his insurance details.

I’ve been angry and frightened since I found out the Tories were selling off parts of the NHS to private companies. Since the Michelle Mone scandal. Since I lay on a ward in 2015 and listened to a woman screaming because she had dementia and she didn’t know where she was. She shouldn’t have been on a general ward but apparently she’d been found in the street so they didn’t have her address / emergency contact details - and there was no social services support available so they couldn’t get her off the ward to free up the bed.

My paramedic friend has told me if several night shifts where they go to one or two calls, then spend the rest of their shift sitting in the ambulance with the patient. Queuing, because there are no beds.

It’s not on the verge of collapse - it HAS collapsed. Brexit fucked it. Covid was the icing on the cake.

It needs enormous and sustained investment to rebuild.

Absolutely this. My DH is always saying it was deliberately sold off years ago, exacerbated by Brexit etc. We're all going to need to be pretty well off once we need private health care access unless we want to spend 3 years just waiting for one appointment 😕😳

Jk987 · 31/01/2025 08:59

It's more than chronic underfunding. It's serious mismanagement causing waste and severe inefficiencies.

The OPs situation is not acceptable however there are still some outstanding, world class aspects of the NHS.

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