I know this isn’t the first thread, but the NHS is close to collapse

[Adropintheocean1]

I don’t want to be to outting, but basically I have some symptoms. GP suspected a condition due to these symptoms, and referred me to the hospital.

My hospital (large city) said we don’t test for this condition, please refer to x London hospital. London hospital said we are the only hospital dealing with this diagnosis, we are overwhelmed, we can’t see her. Suspected illness is not life threatening or limiting however does cause horrible chronic symptoms that need to be managed. So that’s it… GP seemed genuinely embarrassed. Basically if I want a diagnosis I need to go privately (can’t afford it.) GP said for a relatively poor area, his making as many private referrals as NHS ones.

Is it not time we got angry about this?

Just for balance coming on here to share that this is not my experience.

In the last year I had chronic back pain. It was investigated by my GP, I was referred, had an MRI within a few days, also referred to both MSK and normal physio, appointment within a couple of weeks. Follow up phone calls, another two MRIs, also within days of referral.

I have also been referred on the 2 week pathway for breast lumps several times, every time it has been prompt and the care has been amazing and quick (all benign cysts).

At my GP surgery you can ring up and get an appointment that day if it is urgent (duty doc rings you back and triages) or online fairly easily within a couple of weeks for routine. Hardly ever have to wait on the phone for more than a few minutes.

I appreciate there is a postcode lottery and this might not be the case for other parts of the country but from my own personal experience I wouldn’t say the NHS was near collapse.

Is Benenden healthcare in you area OP, might be worth a look, my DD joined and was very reasonable

Also, one of my close friends recently booked a private appointment for something and in the end cancelled it because the NHS one came through quicker.

Interesting.

Over a decade ago now I got an appointment for a mammogram at my local hospital. It was for, say, Tuesday, 4th February 2015 I called and asked to rearrange and was told there was no record. I agree the reference numbers, etc. It transpired the appointment was 51 weeks earlier. I checked the date which said 30th January 2014. The postmark was 30th January 2015. WTF

It isn't just patients who need to sort themselves out imo.

@Wantitalltogoaway MRI in a few days with back pain? Are you living in a town with a population of 10? 😂 I think you must have come #1 in the postcode lottery!! Not mocking genuinely shocked. The breast lumps I would expect a fast referal for of course.

Yes, I was amazed how quickly it came through once I’d been referred. Second and third ones also v quick.

@Wantitalltogoaway well I’m glad to hear it’s still working in some places, gives me hope there is something to be salvaged because it feels utterly broken where I am.

I am in a similar position - GP referred, specialist refused to see me and recommended one medication for the GP to prescribe. This is an incurable, chronic condition which causes pain and scarring, and left untreated can become a huge problem which may need extensive, disfiguring surgery. I’m seeing a private consultant every three months now. Luck we can afford it but we’re not ‘well off’ and any surgical treatment will have to be NHS if it comes to that. I’m sorry you’re struggling to get a diagnosis and hope you can access the care you need soon.

@JustBec Sorry to hear that. I’ve just never heard of the nhs refusing to see people for physical conditions. Long waits yes, but turning people away… slippery slope.

If it's FND for example, there is a specialist place in London, but also other neurologists will be able to diagnose

It fell apart years ago, this is nothing new.

It took the NHS 7 weeks to x-ray my foot to investigate a potential broken toe, safe to say it was healed by that point.

@Wantitalltogoaway

At my GP surgery you can ring up and get an appointment that day if it is urgent (duty doc rings you back and triages) or online fairly easily within a couple of weeks for routine. Hardly ever have to wait on the phone for more than a few minutes.
I appreciate there is a postcode lottery and this might not be the case for other parts of the country but from my own personal experience I wouldn’t say the NHS was near collapse.

Have you time-travelled from 1959?

There's always someone on these threads who briskly pops up with a "nothing to see here" statement about the NHS and invariably these posters live in rural or affluent suburban areas.

It's fair to acknowledge that not everyone has the same experience but the quasi religious dedication to the NHS should not be used to gaslight the millions of us for whom the system ceased to work decades ago. For many of us the service is so bad and so unreliable it's genuinely frightening.

Op I'm sorry this has happened to you but in my view it was collapsed years ago when women in labour were told to go elsewhere because the ward was full.

Cancer referrals seem to be working fine and my GP surgery is the same as ever, but I appreciate it isn’t the case everywhere. A&E is a disaster.

My brother paid privately for an operation because he couldn’t work until it was done, and the NHS wait was 18 months. His experience wasn’t great - the nursing care was poor, they were very under staffed.

I am going to write to my MP about it. I want the NHS to be funded properly. I don’t want private companies to be profiteering from my health. All healthcare should be run on a not for profit basis.

This is a bit harsh. I have only shared my factual personal experience. Is that not allowed?

The NHS is not passively falling apart!
20 yrs ago it was rated as the 4 best healthcare in the world.
Since 2010 the NHS has been actively dismantled thoroughly real terms funding cuts, privatisation and reorganisation.

I’ve got more bad news for you. Anything bug, illness or condition you have ever suffered from before will not be covered privately. Get a long term condition, after 1 yr forget private healthcare, most affordable policies won’t cover it.
Coverage is actively getting worse too as the private insurance companies are putting up prices but cutting the rates they pay some professionals. So if you want to see a specialist you’ll have to pay a top up fee, on top of your premium, for each appointment. Some specialists are cancelling their registrations with these companies and going independent so your premiums won’t cover them at all.

It you want the certain healthcare we grew up with (rather than the ‘can’t afford it, you die’ USA model) it’s time to fund the NHS.

My experience is similar to yours, @Wantitalltogoaway . The NHS doesn't feel broken here (West London). Terrible that it is for others.

I'm in the SE UK, before Covid and the junior drs strikes,you could get an appointment on the day for the GP..it all went to pot then. For a couple of years,it was phone appointments with a nurse. After over a year of agony, I did go to a private consultant.. for one issue.. after severe abdominal pain again on and off for a year, I went to our local ED where I had a CT and multiple problems, some more serious than others were found. I didn't do this lightly. I did my nursing training in the 70s. I've seen both sides of the coin, under all governments. Seen the waste of money. The trusts, small cottage hospitals run by consultants closed down. Then what we used to call "the Sainsbury's managers", running them. "Bring back the Matrons". They used to trundle around with a clip board..I had private surgery in 2006, it wasn't life threatening (major abdominal hernia) minimum 2 year wait, late father left me some money. I had it done privately at one of the big groups. The nursing care was truly awful. I complained and was told it was Agency Nurses. Money thrown at it won't work. People have got used to free healthcare, they are often demanding and unrealistic. I saw them kicking off when I was working, and 18 months ago as a patient. I joined private care back in the 80s, I was having gynae problems, doing the gynae clinic and didn't fancy the bloke I was working with, the following day poking around my privates. Everything I'd ever had, the company said "not covered" the premiums went up and up and I never had a thing wrong with me,so I cancelled it..

@Nannyfannybanny im also SE, & agree since covid there has been a massive decline. My GP’s automated phone message stills states ‘thank you for your patience during these challenging times.’ Presumably haven’t changed it because they are still challenging times post covid!

An NHS was casually having this conversation with you? Shockingly unprofessional! If a condition is a psychological condition then MH support should be given, but if the nurse was referring to ME/CFS then that is internationally recognised as a neurological condition. So the nurse was giving inaccurate information and casually dismissing people with a serious illness? Why?

I’m really sorry that you’re having this experience OP. I hope you don’t have something like dysautonomia/POTs. If it’s a condition similar to that where you can only manage it not treat it, then are you already doing all the management things and/or can your GP support you with this without a diagnosis. Really difficult though as I can understand you want to get certainty and rule out anything else

Same!

My daughter has extensive hospital involvement with multiple departments, and whilst there are delays at times, when needed it has been lightning fast and excellent. When needed, I can phone directly and get out through to a Dr for her.

I can see a GP same day, no issues, through either my local practice or excellent walk in centre. My A&E is decent with my waits ranging from 1-4 hours. Waiting lists for surgeries have been long though.

There are problems in the NHS. It needs better funding and organisation. But no, I don't believe it's on its knees personally. I think that's based on pockets of very poor experience, rather than the average, but we hear of those more.

We need to be careful in thinking that it's collapsed because we are more likely to (a) accept poor practice (B) look for alternatives (c) buy into the theory the NHS is no longer viable.

As you aren't saying what the condition is - which is entirely reasonable of you not to - it's difficult to know what the NHS "should" or could do for this condition, just that it's awful for you not to get an answer. It is on its knees and we need to think what we expect it to do. Currently, we have exactly what we have voted for. The private sector isn't going to save us.

You’re right, unfortunately.

My husband is in hospital atm, a week post surgery.

His consultant and care on the ward has been excellent. The pathway to where we currently are was appalling. 5 hospital admissions since October 2024. Through A&E each time, by ambulance twice (the paramedics were brilliant).
Each time, ridiculously lengthy waits in an hard plastic chair in A&E (with a problem that was eventually diagnosed as life-threatening plus spinal arthritis which left him unable to walk for several days each time after sitting in said chairs).

He has had his life saving surgery. Several members of staff have subsequently and quietly told us what a desperate state the NHS is currently in.

Not that we needed telling. On 3 out of the 5 A&E visits, he required admittance. His waits were 24, 30 and 54 hours for a bed. On the other 2 occasions he just needed IV antibiotics and fluids. By the fifth visit two days prior to Christmas, we were advised that the wait for admittance to a bed was 62 hours.

We don’t see how much longer this state of affairs can carry on.

The nhs is broken due to inefficiency, mistakes and general chaotic management.