I know this isn’t the first thread, but the NHS is close to collapse

[Adropintheocean1]

I don’t want to be to outting, but basically I have some symptoms. GP suspected a condition due to these symptoms, and referred me to the hospital.

My hospital (large city) said we don’t test for this condition, please refer to x London hospital. London hospital said we are the only hospital dealing with this diagnosis, we are overwhelmed, we can’t see her. Suspected illness is not life threatening or limiting however does cause horrible chronic symptoms that need to be managed. So that’s it… GP seemed genuinely embarrassed. Basically if I want a diagnosis I need to go privately (can’t afford it.) GP said for a relatively poor area, his making as many private referrals as NHS ones.

Is it not time we got angry about this?

@Somuchgoo

buy into the theory the NHS is no longer viable

That ship has sailed for me. Just read this thread… you are 1 of 2 people who have this amazing experience of the nhs in recent times.

Unfortunately this nurse is just perpetuating mis-information. Fibro, chronic pain, CFS etc are readily acknowledged by any clinician not stuck in the dark ages (of which there are some) as significant conditions with both physical and psychological impact. That is why specialist services have to be multidisciplinary. All these conditions are really hard to live with, just like other long term conditions, and can need psychological support. That does not mean they are caused by mental health problems. Anyone saying that needs to retrain asap.

A few PPs have commented that there’s certain things that maybe 20 years ago the NHS wouldn’t have treated, and that we can’t expect the NHS to find certain things. What would you suggest isn’t funded? Or do you mean that in previous generations we had less treatment options so people would have naturally died sooner?

And I make 3.
However we all know those who report events are disproportionately (and understandably) those who have had bad experiences. This goes for feedback in any field, healthcare, industry, retail etc

Yes, because most people with decent experiences either haven't come in this thread as it feels less relevant, or haven't felt invested enough to respond.

Think of an average restaurant. Say, Pizza Express. If you have a horrific visit, awful food, maybe are ill, rude waiter etc, then you may well write a review. If it was outstandingly good then some people still write a review. Few will write 'it was adequate, felt full after '. So more people will always recount their negative experiences then positives, and the neutral ones are rarely even considered.

Take the 4hr A&E target. Nationwide on average 71% of patients are treated, discharged or admitted within 4hrs. That should be nearer 100%, but if you ask people how long they think on average people wait, then you'll hear 10hrs, 12hrs, because the 10% of people who DO wait that long (or longer) you hear about more than those in and out within 2hrs. People get a false picture.

The problem is no one listened when it mattered when Jeremy Hunt was a complete idiot and cut back while denigrating everything. He told lies while deliberately reducing beds and services.
No it's much harder to get back as even the acute services are inadequate.
Private facilities only help for certain things it's not acute.

I agree too. 3 close family members of different ages treated for serious illness and one more for hip replacement again treated brilliantly this past 12 months. My GP also good, appointment same day. Blood tests also easy sent link, book and in and out in 15 mins. Feel lucky so far and thankful

@LongDarkTeatime Do you think I am lying? Or other posters on here are lying? I sincerely hope you don’t find out like I did when you require the NHS’s help and get told point blank no, sorry.

Hasn't the NHS been "close to collapse" for like forever?

It's very odd.

My DH is, basically, dying from cirrhosis and has a couple of years to live (65)

He sees the GP and various consultants every couple of weeks. He has medicines prescribed that they all agree he no longer needs yet no-one seems able to take them off his prescription, so back they go to be incinerated at a cost of hundreds every time. That has been going on for years.

When he was in hospital last (for 6 weeks) the waste was astounding. Boxes and boxes of wet wipes piled up around him. Cardboard urinals on his side table - some full, some empty. Loads of other stuff brought, dumped, then a fresh load brought.
That was just his bed. We must be wasting millions a year just by thoughtlessness andva lack of common sense.

I'm constantly bombarded with texts to take BP readings and see GP. (I've already told GP that I know what I need to do, I DON'T want medication and I DON'T want to be monitored. I take responsibility for myself).

I love the NHS - don't get me wrong. I owe it my life more than once.

But it's NOT a Holy Thing That Must Not Be Critiqued At All Costs. It must be reviewed, reformed and refreshed constantly to survive.

I have a CND which was diagnosed by a neurologist. For this I was referred to a different trust as apparently we don’t have a neurology department. Made no difference to what GP suspected as treatment for my condition is not funded in my post code.

Apart from that my GP surgery is amazing and so incredibly respectful. Treatment is prompt and access to services such as physio is quick and in house. I have recently had surgery and was treated so kindly despite some complexities involved. Yet my friend at a different surgery in the same town has had a completely different experience. To me the NHS is an amazing thing but there are so many inequalities within areas and across the country. It is also dealing with so much more than it ever was.

This was the plan all along, underfund the system so it breaks and then have a private care system run by banks and business not by the government.

The UK is a good market, we are now politically aligned with the same level of individualism as the US, and then we broke from the socialism in Europe. I live in NZ and there is a private/public partnership. It works if you can afford it with health insureance (which costs me $184 a month to cover 60% of costs), in pounds it will be about 100GBP a month with costs on top of that.

I have to agree with this.
Healthcare will always be a bottomless pit of need. Advances in medical science mean that we can (in theory) treat things which people used to have to just live with. Because there is a treatment method we naturally feel that we should receive treatment, but we dont have the money or the staff to actually provide the treatment.
We ought to be forced to take better care of our health but I cant see how that could be done. We all expect to be able to indulge ourselves as we choose and then receive treatment for the damage which might occur!

Many argue that there is a lack of funding, but there is also inefficiency and massively increased demand, due to increasing population and also higher expectations in terms of the range and complexity of conditions and costly treatments that are available. I just don't think we can afford a system that is completely free at the point of use anymore. I pay for private medical insurance (though am not rich), because I don't trust the NHS to respond quickly enough if I developed a life threatening / life limiting condition. But like others I fear that the private system will become overwhelmed. Other countries seem to do this so much better than us and I think it's time to look at alternative funding models and systems. We need to stop thinking that it can stay the same, and get better if we just increase funding - how much will be enough? With a stagnating economy and shrinking tax base (and a historically high tax burden), we just can't afford to treat it like a money pit, it needs drastic reform.

More focus on prevention and encouraging people to make healthier choices would also help.

I don’t think you’re lying OP. I think some people do have a positive NHS experience and unless they or someone they love has been badly let down, they may not get his difficult it is when that happens. I totally get it xx

I would hasten to add I am not an nhs hater, far from it I adore the nhs and would go as far as to say it was something that made me very proud. I also know there are wonderful doctors and nurses and hca’s and cleaners and catering assistants etc that can in some areas make it run incredibly well. But there is without doubt issues and if we don’t address them then I really do fear for its future.

Oh do bore off. Every single NHS hospital clinic I have ever attended people are block booked for appointments, 9 am or 2pm, and you just sit around like a chump until they fit you in. Like bollocks is someone wasting valuable time if they don't turn up - they're doing the rest of us a favour because it means we might be seen within three hours.

Maybe I'd have a bit more sympathy with this argument if clinics weren't so obviously run for the convenience of doctors on £80k a year. But, they are exactly run like that.

OP, join benenden. You only need to be a member for six months and then you can get an appointment with a private consultant and tests etc

That's exactly what's happened, the Tories (and new labour) knew they couldn't just end the NHS, they had to just starve it of funds which they did by funelling to private providers through referrals (but kept it on the NHS books so it looks like the NHS has a healthy budget)

And then when it's barely functional, hold their hands up and say "golly gosh there's nothing that we could have done, must be all the immigrants. Let's privatise it, but of course not like the nasty American system, like one of the lovely European ones!" Then privatise it like the American system.

It not the entire NHS that's about to collapse under it's own weight, that's not how it's run. Too many Trusts are run terribly though.

I am extremely lucky to be under an exceptional hospital which is run very well. I have been in twice this week and cannot fault them.

Sorry, I know this isn't helping, it's just the NHS isn't run as one huge conglomerate. So many are run by ex clinical staff who have no fuckijg clue about management, budgets and how to manage admin effectively.

No, sorry but I've been told this for all my voting life - coming up to 50 years of voting!

It's pure nonsense. No Political Party will ever, EVER dismantle the NHS. It would be the end, forever, of that Party. Suicide.

It needs reform certainly, and some hard decisions about elderly care, IVF and loads of non-critical proceedings that are being done currently.

But please FFS stop peddling the absolute myth that a future Government will abolish it. Never going to happen.

Oh no you mean all those beurocratic pencil pushers and admin jobs, politicians and newspapers was screaming should be axed actually had a tangible purpose? Who'd of thunk it.

@BMW6 I think it will be less obvious, a bit like the nhs dentistry. If you want your teeth sorted now it’s just accepted you’ll pay privately because hardly anyone can find an nhs dentist. If you have a heart attack or cancer etc the nhs will treat you promptly but anything that can be seen as non urgent will have such ludicrous waiting times (years) or in my case refusal to be seen at all (here’s an advice pamphlet) - people will just end up saying, I won’t go to the nhs for this there’s
no point I will go privately.

It's time we stop worshipping this outdated model of a health service and introduce something that is more cost-effective and improves patient outcomes. Something like what Germany or France are doing.

The NHS is the best system for providing healthcare in the world, bar none.
Our nationally-insured style of funding is the best method for funding healthcare in the world, bar none. So what's the problem?
It's the rule of 7,000s. How might the NHS spend each £7,000 it gets?
(a) on a part-time ward cleaner - per year;
(b) on a newly qualified nurse - per quarter;
(c) on a consultant doctor or surgeon - per month;
(d) on a business consultant (from one of the 'big four' companies) - per day;
(e) on a multi-millionaire introducer - per hour for a year.
There's the problem.

Have you not noticed how much more private referrals you get through the NHS now? Only this month my Mum has been diagnosed with osteoarthritis, her outpatient care has been outsourced to a private physiotherapy company.

No, politicians would never SAY they are going to end the NHS, but all the NHS will be, if this carries on, is a friendly recognisable trademark like the Royal Mail or British Gas.