Parents need to stop lying about term time holidays

[Ljcrow]

If parents want to take their kids out of school for a term time holiday because it's cheaper, I wish they wouldn't give the bullshit that it's an "educational experience". There's an article about this on the BBC today, but working in a school I've heard it all before. Can we not pretend that an all-inclusive to Lanzarote or similar is a rich cultural and educational experience?! If you want to take your kids our because it's cheaper that's up to you but don't try claim the moral high ground, no one's falling for it. (Fwiw I think holiday companies shouldn't be allowed to hike their prices up in school holidays, it's disgraceful, and as a parent myself I have no choice but to pay those inflated prices. It sucks.)

Schools are not at fault here. Blame the airlines.

Great. But I wonder what impact it had on the other children in the class when the teacher had to give time to you individually to help you catch up. Perhaps your parents were able to help in that process, but not all are.

As for the rugby and the Panto - you’re missing the point. A whole class doing something else is not the same as most of the class being taught an important new concept and one child missing it because they’re on holiday, so have to be taught it individually at a later date.

They will stop lying when schools stop adopting
a totalitarian system of control.
I grew up in such setup.
Why are you doing it here and now?

I only learnt of this a few years ago ( as not in England) and was gobsmacked that you coud get fined for taking your own children out of school.
Where I live people take their kids out for 6 months or more and go traveling around the country.
Out of interest

1. why don't you just say you've decided to homeschool and then after the 3 month long holiday or whatever say you've changed your mind.
2. do you have unschooling?
3. what happens if you don't pay the fine?Do they your kick your child out of school.

So bizarre.

The options could be that simply make half terms or non-summer holidays all a bit longer and reduce the length of the summer break (I think 4 weeks would be plenty)

What? Extend the freezing wet Feb half term so that families who can afford foreign holidays can up their pollution of the skies with yet more plane journeys while poorer families struggle to entertain kids in the park for two freezing weeks? Or on a caravan site in a gale?

And all the exam timetables get moved around to suit Tuscan-bound families wanting staggered times?

Because your school place would have been re-allocated and the new school place would be wherever there was a vacancy… could be very inconvenient for travel, a school in special measures, your kids would be depart from old friends.

If you don’t pay the fine they take you to court.

Loads of families just budget the cost of the fine I to the holiday cost.

I think this ramped up when people started viewing holidays as a human right.

Provided you don’t expect the school to give little Johnny special 1-1 lessons in long division so he can catch up after his ‘educational’ week in Benidorm then fill your boots. Yes, there are lots of ‘I missed 6 years of school to go snorkeling with sharks in the alps and now I’m a CEO with an Oxford PhD’ kind of stories, but in real life the parents who do this tend to have a much more relaxed view of attendance generally, and it very often impacts of friendship circles and school performance, and often they’re the kids who need to be in school most.

It's a bit "chicken and egg" though. People go on holiday because schools aren't doing any work/schools aren't doing any work because a substantial number of children are absent.

While I respect that take, and you're entitled to it, it obviously isn't the one that's taken root.

I should add where I live the government has a legal requirement to have a place available for all children where they live. I think generally its 100 days off for a holiday that someone senior gets involved but generally not a big deal. If dad gets a transfer to another country for work nobody blinks so not much different.

Agreed. They're my kids, school can fuck off.

Absolutely gobsmacking. You are getting a free-at-the-point-of-delivery education for your child, delivered by committed professionals, and no doubt you would be the first to complain if standards drop or your little Alfie or whoever doesn't get the grades. And yet 'school can fuck off'.

Why do parents who take their kids out of school for holidays act as if they're the only ones and therefore it's not disruptive? If multiple parents do this - as they do - it completely screws up the classroom dynamics and interferes with their learning.

I think you’re right. And I think — extending it into the work environment— that’s what’s at the root of the WFH debates too.

I haven't read the article but disagree with the OP. I think that a child's mind will be broadened by the experience. Even in an all-inclusive, mostly English speaking resort they may pick up some basic local language. They will experience a different culture and maybe learn something from a new friend on holiday. I think holidays overseas are a very important experience for a child and I don't think the time spent in a different country for a child should be underestimated.

We took our dc out of school a few days early one Christmas when they were in infant school. We felt so guilty about it but were pleasantly surprised when the Head approached us to say that she had our full encouragement as it would be a valuable experience for them.

Parents could just say they are taking their child out during term time because holidays are cheaper then but they are not wrong to say that that the experience will benefit the child. I don't really see why the reason given should matter so much to teachers. Maybe some parents are embarressed to say that they can't afford to go in the school holidays.

They take you to court!! What a waste of time and resources! The lawyer wiol charge more than the fine,
Ours have to take you in the nearest school.

Yeah - have you ever taught in a developing country? It's a bit of myth. The attendance is very sparodic and parents definitely take kids out of school for various spurious reasons.

Eh, doesn't really affect either the principle or the reality. Some members of the public are not what we might wish them to be. It was ever thus. We still collectively fund our government and state education, so it's a weak argument to say we should accept whatever imbecile policy is currently being enacted as a condition of access to the institutions.

I think that a child's mind will be broadened by the experience.

Great - they can have their mind broadened by a trip abroad during holiday time and broadened by attending lessons during term time. It's win-win.

No one is suggesting kids shouldn't go on holiday, ffs

Yep! One can only imagine what people in developing countries think of self-righteous Westerners using them as tools to prop up bad internet arguments.

Taxpayer here.

My taxes pay for your child to receive an education. The same education system also gives you the time to go to work. I therefore expect you to make every effort for them to attend every day.

Re. educational experience. Taking kids to the supermarket is also educational, it doesn't have to be middle class favourites like Tuscany or skiing - so, should a supermarket trip be a reason to skip school?

Re. price of holidays. This is supply and demand - you know, the same concept that allows you to get the cheaper holidays off-season. Think about people without kids, too - they are often subsidising you.

Worth pointing out that this is in fact exactly what is being suggested for some families, if the argument is that term time holidays shouldn't ever happen. As has been pointed out in the thread already, sometimes it's a cheapo midweek term time UK break or nothing.

If you want to argue that the families in these situations should indeed choose the nothing option, fine, but let's be clear about that.

I know somebody who is taking their family to Australia for 6 weeks in term time. At least 2, if not 3, of the children are school age. I do think this will be an educational experience, in part. Getting to know something about travel, how long it takes to get somewhere, the experience of flights, customs etc, as well as how different Australia is culturally even though it is similar on the surface, the fact that the seasons are opposite, exposure to completely different wild animals etc. - all this is educational even if not on the curriculum and I approve of that. However in 6 weeks there will be a whole lot of non-cultural stuff as well. Can't help being a weeny bit judgy (and a huge bit jealous!)

I have summer born DC who we delayed for a year. The cohort they would have been in is about to head to secondary school. I have to reapply and hope our chosen school accepts them in their current year OR they miss Yr7. They can of course skip a year of primary because the last couple of years of primary are so unimportant.

As soon as the DofE stops suggesting that my DC can quite easily miss an entire year of school with no detriment, I will start thinking differently about term time holidays.

Taxpayer here.
My taxes pay for your child to receive an education. The same education system also gives you the time to go to work. I therefore expect you to make every effort for them to attend every day.

Taxpayer here. I expected the state to provide an adequate education for my DC, including the ND one, throughout the period of their compulsory education age. Life is full of disappointments.

Do people who people who think that every kid should be entitled to a week or two off each year in term time fundamentally disagree with the concept of set terms? Is it Ok if the teachers all take a week off here and there?
Would it better if schools ran all year like businesses and all staff and students had an entitlement of X days and weeks to be booked off as and when? Would there be any downsides to this? Convenience all round surely?