Parents need to stop lying about term time holidays

[Ljcrow]

If parents want to take their kids out of school for a term time holiday because it's cheaper, I wish they wouldn't give the bullshit that it's an "educational experience". There's an article about this on the BBC today, but working in a school I've heard it all before. Can we not pretend that an all-inclusive to Lanzarote or similar is a rich cultural and educational experience?! If you want to take your kids our because it's cheaper that's up to you but don't try claim the moral high ground, no one's falling for it. (Fwiw I think holiday companies shouldn't be allowed to hike their prices up in school holidays, it's disgraceful, and as a parent myself I have no choice but to pay those inflated prices. It sucks.)

YANBU @Ljcrow but there'll be many many posts from entitled parents telling you you are.

A package holiday to Lanzarote is "educational" my foot.

Honestly, I don't take DD, 6, out of school even for a day. She got 100% attendance last year and unless she's poorly this year I want the same. I want to get her the best education possible plus she loves school. She particularly loves the fun days at the end of term where they dress up, have parties, watch movies...

I guess we've just adjusted our expectations on holidays as since DD started school they're obviously a lot more expensive. I don't judge others, find other viewpoints interesting.

Taxpayer here 👋, and parent to school aged children.
As my taxes pay for your NHS provision, I expect that you don’t drink, smoke, are not overweight, don’t eat refined sugars and overall don’t do anything that may be considered detrimental to your health.

The cost of holidays is purely down to the laws of supply and demand.

Something is only worth what people are willing and able to pay and how many people want it.

When something's not in demand, the prices are lowered to encourage people to buy.

When something is in demand, the prices can be increased as far as possible until people stop buying it.

Ultimately the people that can and do pay the extortionate prices for holidays outside of term time are the ones scuppering the prices for everyone else.

No fines where I am, and I have taken dd out of school, but max 2 days (twice) at the start or end of a school holiday.

I think schools have a cheek really as most schools do a ski trip (how is that educational?) in term time so those kids miss a weeks school. Likewise the French trip is spending 2 of the 4 days in Disney land, then a visit to the Eiffel Tower, a river trip and visiting a museum. All things a parent in England might do but get fined for if they took them in term time.

But again if someone had to pay for their education in this country and it wasn't free, would people still take the piss?

I’m a teacher with an inclusion role as well and I honestly don’t mind if parents take their children on holiday. In fact, I wish I could take term time holidays too and will be trying to go on one before my mat leave ends this year.

What I DO mind is:

a) Parents requesting work for their child to take on holiday. Absolutely no way am I staying late collating two weeks’ worth of lesson plans for your child, that’s insane.

b) Parents moaning when their child falls behind and this is reflected in their school report. Two weeks DOES make a difference, particularly in the younger years when you follow a very specific, structured phonics and maths scheme which is done in order. Your child might miss out on learning to add for the first time. When they come back I may not have time to teach them to add because I have a bunch of severely SEN children with no EHCP and a TA who has to do lunch duty and break duty and cover nappy changes in Reception. Do not then have a go at me if I then write in their school report that they are behind in maths.

c) Parents giving me an earful when I have to have a meeting with them about their child’s absence as part of my inclusion role. I don’t want to have a meeting either, I am busy, but the LA says we have to so we do. It’s not government control- you are more than welcome to not send your child to an LA school if you don’t want to abide by the terms and conditions.

d) Don’t call the office to complain about MY absence and the effect on your child’s education when I’ve had time off for a miscarriage.

✌️

Years ago when my children were young I took them out of school for 2 weeks, we went to a north African country to visit people we knew. We stayed in their home village where the women fetched watch from the well and baked in oil drums that had been lined with clay to make them ovens. It was amazing. I told the school we were going for 2 weeks Easter holiday and another 2 weeks, I'd make sure they did plenty of reading and kept a diary to show when they got back if the school were interested and apologised for any disruption to their education.

The Head said he thought it was wonderful and far more educational than 2 more weeks in schools. So some teachers do value some trips although I have to say when I was asked to pay for a school trip to EuroDisney with the kids missing a week of school I couldn't really see how educational that was.

My final month of primary school was spent going through things like sports equipment sheds and chucking out stuff that is broken, full of holes etc.

Majority of the parents reacted badly to this, including mine. Those jobs are for teachers etc to do, not year 6 pupils!

Then parents including mine took advantage of booking late minute deals. After discovering that we were going to do this for the rest of the term.

Never had a farewell party or anything similar.

I was not going to learn anything from cleaning out lost property cupboards either.

We do pay for education here, via taxation.
But for what it’s worth, next year when my daughter is in private school I will still take her out to visit her grandparents in term time if that’s the only time we are able to go.

My ds’s history A level teacher didn’t turn up for several lessons months before final exams, no explanation given. Ds was really upset and stressed.

Dd’s gcse maths teacher went off on maternity leave as expected but no proper cover provided, just supply teachers, no personal knowledge of the pupils abilities. We paid a tutor to ensure she passed at a C grade.

Perhaps the school should have been fined.

From the children I know at private schools (the grand sum of 3) they do still go on term time holidays. No idea if it is common.

It’s basic economics; supply and demand. You don’t have to go on holiday. Just like you don’t have to buy a smart phone, or must have trainers etc etc. Being a consumer for these items or experiences is a choice, not a necessity and therefore companies are perfectly entitled to charge what they want to charge. Many millions of products are priced according to demand; why just the outrange for holidays?

They also get longer holidays. It's only the hoi polloi who are expected to restrict themselves to standard school breaks.

What about term time holidays that are not due to cost? I have taken my children out in term time for holidays, and taking some days shortly ragged to a school holiday.

Not once has this been cost related, and actually one particularly pricey trip it was the peak season for. We do it because the dates work for many reasons, including our work and where we are going to. Not at all due to costs.

In a capitalist economy you can't dictate to holiday companies what they charge.

And ours really are cultural trips, I wouldn't do it for just a week in the sun

It is also a question of businesses surviving. I live in a seaside town in the South West. It is well known that July and August is when the businesses make money, the rest of the year just keeps things ticking over. If businesses had to charge the same in February as August it wouldn't work, they wouldn't make enough money in August if February prices were enforced and if August prices were charged in February no one would pay them and the business wouldn't tick over till the high season.

Over half is not ‘some members of the public’. I have always thought schools should take a have a much lighter touch on things like this, but successive governments have pushed more and more social work onto teachers and parents have come to rely on that when it suits them and resent it when it doesn’t.

The ones I know have still taken term time holidays.

I don't think it's lying when they say 'education'. It's just not the definition of education that you want it to be (and that's a wider issue with the system as a whole). Education doesn't have to be phonics, algebra. Education should include exploring, asking questions, experiencing cultures and languages, communication. It doesn't even have to involve going to a museum. It's sad that this isn't considered valuable.
I was a teacher for 10 years including SLT. So many parents (including myself so no judgement here) work so hard, long hours, the daily grind is constant, the juggle of childcare before and after school and the holidays so the parents can work. How wonderful that they're taking some time out to reconnect, spend time together, laugh together, eat all their meals together, talk about the world without the rush.
I always made sure the parents of the children in my class knew I was thrilled for them to be enjoying a holiday. And for the child to return and tell the class about everything they did, again a brilliant learning experience in terms of communication or even talking in front of everyone, being proud of themselves.
The fact that the curriculum is so rammed that missing a week of lessons is going to significantly disadvantage a child is proof that the whole system is a mess. The constant need to move on quickly, no time to practise, let's get on with the next thing etc etc.
You can probably guess why I quit. I don't teach anymore and I'll be taking my kids out in term term from now on!

Quite.

The question about time off for school staff has already been asked, and several of us have said we think it could be a good idea to help with recruitment. Not just teachers, TAs too

However, if the argument is that staff should be able to do something if pupils can, clearly equal treatment would have to work both ways. The pupils would need salaries too, and pensions. Or we could just be sensible and consider that maybe jobs and schools aren't the same thing.

Taxpayer here.

My taxes pay for English children to go to school. I expect them to be given the same courtesy as Northern Irish and Scottish children and allowed to holiday at the time most appropriate for their family.

My taxes also pay for English teachers' salaries. I expect them to be treated as the professionals they are, and ditch all the unnecessary paperwork so that they can leave school shortly after their pupils and go have evenings and weekends with their families.

What do you mean paying taxes doesn't work like that?

So have these times with the children, on family holidays out of term time

I mean, it is. The word 'some' just means an amount.

Agree that the state has pushed too much onto schools, and now we see the problems resulting. It's austerity. When a school is one of the few things open and providing services, especially when it's the one people have most contact with, it gets lumbered with everything. It's a shit system, no argument there.