Parents need to stop lying about term time holidays

[Ljcrow]

If parents want to take their kids out of school for a term time holiday because it's cheaper, I wish they wouldn't give the bullshit that it's an "educational experience". There's an article about this on the BBC today, but working in a school I've heard it all before. Can we not pretend that an all-inclusive to Lanzarote or similar is a rich cultural and educational experience?! If you want to take your kids our because it's cheaper that's up to you but don't try claim the moral high ground, no one's falling for it. (Fwiw I think holiday companies shouldn't be allowed to hike their prices up in school holidays, it's disgraceful, and as a parent myself I have no choice but to pay those inflated prices. It sucks.)

It’s quite depressing that ‘school’ shoulders the blame for issuing fines and refusing permission for holidays. It is government policy, to attempt to reduce absenteeism in schools, nothing to do with the head or individual teachers in schools. They are doing what they’ve been told to do, whether they agree with it or not. The government wants to increase attendance and this is the method they’re using.

Of course, a week here and there won’t affect life chances, but regular days/ weeks off, will have a negative impact.

It was also government policy to close schools during 2020, as it was to close many other establishments. Schools were open to the children of key workers and every teacher I know, provided lessons via Zoom or Teams. I’m aware that some provision was lacking and was well documented here, but most school staff worked hard to provide lessons during that time.

I understand why people want or need to take children on holiday during term time. The financial implications are considerable. I hope that they acknowledge that there are key points during the year, where it may be really detrimental, particularly around exam time.

Of course it is cultural. I have friends and family who have never left the country, been on a plane or been lucky enough to go on holiday. Just because an all inclusive isn't your idea of culture doesn't mean it is not a learning and growing experience.

TBH, I think we'd see even more term time holidays if it weren't for people's annual leave. We only ever take 3 days out, for that reason. The ship has very much sailed on this one.

It used to being like this here years ago. But changed in the 2000’s.
Why has it changed for the UK but not for many other countries? Is the UK the most strictest / most sanctions in the world for term time holidays?

My parents always took me and my siblings out of school for holidays when we were growing up, and yes, many of them were cultural experiences, especially the ‘all inclusives’ we went to in Turkey with excursions to Troy and Pamukkale. They took us out each year, often more than once and it had ZERO affect on my education. They were wonderful parents who put their children first, not themselves. I went to college and university and now have a successful business, to say that 5 days I had out of education once a year had a detrimental affect is actually pathetic. However, my daughter’s school taking the children out for a full day to take them to watch a rugby match? Or to take them to watch an panto? That’s absolutely fine, isn’t it? It’s called double standards. I think you’ve got who’s on their high horse the wrong way around.

My relatives live on the other side of the world, and it's DC's cultural heritage. Most of the immigrant families I know go in term time as they will save £1000's.

I will keep lying or be fined because it's important for DC to see grandparents.

I do wonder if some of the people disliking term time holidays are the same people that moan that their colleagues with children always hog the annual leave for Christmas and the summer holidays. 🤔

Any travel is an education experience to a child

It's just England. Scotland and NI have managed to avoid this foolishness entirely, and the Welsh system does have fines I believe but it's nowhere near as strict.

(Child of a teacher here, so someone who NEVER went on holiday in term time and who has felt hugely guilty about taking my own children away, once, for the last couple of days of the summer term)

The real problem, as I see it, is that parents who happily take their children on holiday in term time are breaking the implied ‘contract’ that they have with the school. And if children grow up thinking that it’s OK to break that agreement because it suits their parents, they might find it hard to take seriously other contracts — real or implied — that demand attendance at specific times. Like, I dunno, work?

I agree that you just have to own it. I’ve taken mine out and feel no guilt. I generally go early at the end of term so they’re not necessarily missing much but on balance, it’s been worth it for me.

I have though seen some ridiculously over the top justifications from people trying to convince their head teachers that Disney world is educational. At the end of the day, schools aren’t going to be able to sign it off anymore so you just need to be upfront and weigh up the fine in the decision-making.

I don’t understand why it annoys you so much.

Just because you are taking the moral high ground and not taking your kids on holiday abroad during the holidays doesn’t mean need to be so bitter about parents who do. It’s disgraceful the government and schools try to shame parents who do. I think all kids should be able to go on a decent holidays abroad, not just those who can ‘afford’ the ridiculous pricing during school holidays. It’s just creates a bigger divide on the UK’s class system.

It's children who are told to lie by their parents I feel really sorry for. It means they cannot talk about their holiday, to their friends or their teachers.

The real problem, as I see it, is that parents who happily take their children on holiday in term time are breaking the implied ‘contract’ that they have with the school.

Lockdown broke that. It was more fragile than most people realised, and it hasn't survived societal reframing of school attendance being something that can be superceded with a good enough reason.

It’s all very well to say teachers wouldn't have to help the children catch up on what they’ve missed, but that’s not realistic if they missed something crucial in a series of lessons on a new concept.

And it’s all very well to say parents would agree they had responsibility for the impact, but it’s the school that gets officially judged on their exam results.

I was taken on term time holidays and am now in a well respected and highly paid career. I’m fairly sure my children will be ok.

It was ok to close the school during lockdown for so long though?

I had to fight tooth and nail to get one of my children a key worker space in school because I'm a nurse who works nights. And to quote the school "you're there during the day you don't need the space" so they fully expected me to work a 13 hour night shift on a busy unit and home school my child during the day and then go back to work that night on no sleep.

My other child's primary head fought my corner for me in the end after a few weeks doing just this.

So yes I take my child out of school for holiday, because of said job when I can take my leave is limited and DH is only home from working away 2 months at a time and that never falls in the summer hols. That being said because of illness this year his attendance isn't great so I won't be taking him this year

I agree. Read the same article and saw quotes about “we were learning about Turkish culture, eating Turkish cuisine.” Bullshit. You’re eating local food and not all learning is equal. Learning about a different culture but missing phonics is not good.

I do wonder whether some people are aware how patchy school attendance was until quite recently. It was the Blair government who really tackled it. The workplace is full of people from generations when absence wasn't taken as seriously. It's not a new thing.

The thing is, the pandemic was an emergency situation.

For me, the loss of those school months for the children showed me how vital it is for them to be in school all the time unless ill, not that it was worthless.

I think our children are still suffering from the loss of all those months and so it’s all the more important they don’t miss more time.

I used to be so supportive of schools and teachers but recently I've decided to put my children's welfare first and this includes term time holidays, school day medical appointments, not doing daily reading or engaging with the PTA. My home is so much happier, calmer and as a direct result attainment is improving.

I do think parents should take far more responsibility for their children and should not be sanctioned for this, but it is a bit laughable when so many are completely happy to rely on the state to take on parenting responsibilities when it suits them. Look at the recent survey that says that more than half of UK parents don’t think their child should know how to turn the pages of a book before going to school.

As a teacher, if my students want to take time off in term time, I'm fine with it AS LONG AS no-one expects me to catch up the work they miss, or don't understand because they missed the important foundational part. I also insist that no-one judges my performance as a teacher based on grades of students who go on holiday for an extra 3 weeks every year, and yes, this happens to every class every year. I remember an incident where 3 of my students in years 10 and 11 went off sick miraculously at the same time as a Taylor Swift concert. 1 of them later confessed as "they didn't want to lie".

I get that and agree.
However sorry wtf are kids in school 2 whole weeks a year learning nothing.
Either we give everyone 2 more weeks holiday (ideally yes as 5 weeks summer where it rains etc is rubbish compared to most countries)
Or we cut the 'dont do work' to 1 day at the end of term (obviously im not including plays and sports day.
Theyre at school 35 weeks with also rando m inset days that change yearly and dont match primary to secondary. So for us thats 5 days dc1 can go somewhere dc2 cant...
Its actually shocking having gone to private school how much state school teachers 'get away with '

i do agree with fines where parents arent sending kids regularly.
And some parents take kids out every year for 5-10 days. If youre going abroad you are still likely spending 2-3k in term time?

i think the rules are being applied unfairly though.

1. ive had letters even though dc1 was ill. Last year she had just 1 day off - sick. 2 ) last school yr i asked for 1 day holiday for dc2 (bare in mind i never keep her off if not ill so this is day 1 in 3.5 yrs of school. No. Okay i wasnt expecting to be allowed.
   But talking to 2 other parents after xmas 2024 both had about a month away so 10extra school days off. And were authorised!! Yes there can be extenuating circs, perhaps there was but in reality both have relatives abroad who they were visiting. And yet so were we..... Now i do perhaps think this is different but its a hard sell to say oh well x and y family chose to move abroad here so can have weeks off without prosecution but uk natives cant go to visit people or on other holidays so will get a conviction if they exceed 15 days in 3 years.

HT and the gov are making no allowance for overall pattern of attendance.

Most of the days my kids have missed have been the (stupid) 48h d&v rule.
I susoect even more parents will ignore this as counting days over a 10week period people wont risk fines for their holiday.
I have noticed illness seems worse this year than last possibly as more parents sending in borderline kids.

Bigger than the holidays issue though is the low quality of nhs care. Dc had many days off as had a uti but it took 5 working days to get results back THEN only 3 days AB. So unsurprisingly it returned so more tests and still only 3 days AB!
Likewise never testing for strep like other countries do means noone gets AB so keeps spreading it.
Poor sen identification from schools and understanding, friendship help and preventing bullying would help more kids get into school and be happier.
I think yes the teachers arent as strict but by secondary the kids are nasty to each other.

Actually, what I think government COULD do, but there isn't appetite for this at all.... is relook at holidays and school schedules. The long summer holiday is simply not practical anymore or useful for most families. Similarly, the short breaks in Feb and October are not helpful. Spreading the holidays out more evenly across the year would reduce some of these issues as there would be more flexibility for all families on when they away, with the added benefit of less loss of productivity centered on certain times etc.

The options could be that simply make half terms or non-summer holidays all a bit longer and reduce the length of the summer break (I think 4 weeks would be plenty). Or change the term schedule completely - in the southern hemisphere 4 terms per year is standard but no half terms. i don't know what would be best but I feel some resources applied to doing a study on this would be very helpful.