Parents need to stop lying about term time holidays

[Ljcrow]

If parents want to take their kids out of school for a term time holiday because it's cheaper, I wish they wouldn't give the bullshit that it's an "educational experience". There's an article about this on the BBC today, but working in a school I've heard it all before. Can we not pretend that an all-inclusive to Lanzarote or similar is a rich cultural and educational experience?! If you want to take your kids our because it's cheaper that's up to you but don't try claim the moral high ground, no one's falling for it. (Fwiw I think holiday companies shouldn't be allowed to hike their prices up in school holidays, it's disgraceful, and as a parent myself I have no choice but to pay those inflated prices. It sucks.)

As a former secondary teacher it was a problem. One course I taught at GCSE had controlled coursework and if the children were away this time had to be made up. So this would mean trying to find a room, staff this, take the child out of another lesson.

Additionally I had some A level students taking time off in May!!! While this sometimes was the half term week, it still meant they missed revision sessions and it was cutting it fine to the actual exam e.g. them getting back on the Sunday, exam on Monday.

I also think some children get very upset by missing school and the learning. One of my children hates being off ill (primary school aged) as they know they will have missed something new and will be behind. Other child couldn't care less though 😂 I think if parents make this decision they should consider the impact on their child and how they will feel about it and the time of year they miss (saying the week before the school holidays is a good time means the child might miss on the fun, missing first week back at school they miss meeting their new teacher)

I think the families that are likely to plan the term time ski trips are those who are likely to be contentious about attendance the remainder of the time. So not shame, but aspiration, keeps those kids at school.

Kids who have lengthy unplanned absences are going to be from families that are less likely to "game the system" in that way, as they can't be sure that they won't get more lengthy absences within the three years.

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

That is all. I'm no longer engaging with you, you're ridiculous.

One thing I would like to throw into the mix, and I would hope that I'm in the minority but it happens, is that my dad died when I was 18. I had the odd term time break when I was in primary school and had I not, I would literally have no memories of being away from home with my dad. You just never know what's around the corner.

I also have a degree, a higher degree, another postgrad and a grown up job so it's hardly scarred me for life 🤷‍♀️.

My parents never took me out of school but I missed plenty of days in year four due to friendship issues, I also missed a lot of my Grammar school year 7 because I had a bully of a teacher for one subject and found it so hard to settle - there was no idea of me being giving work to catch up or teachers going over the same things, I just missed out. Still went on to get a First at University and a good career that I enjoy.

On another note, I'm glad you've decided to ignore that other poster! I was shaking my head at the aggression coming from them!

Thank you 😁 and yes, exactly. There's so many reasons why kids miss school and making them think they're doomed because they don't have 100% attendance is so damaging in my opinion!

But imagine if you did have time off school for holidays, plus all your issues? A child would be barely in if that was the case!

No one is making them think they are doomed. But it creates extra work for the teacher. I am 100% sure that when it comes to sickness etc and other things that can't be avoided they don't mind. But do you think that creating extra work for a teacher so you (you being the general term, not you in particular) can have fun on holiday is perfectly fine?

Well no, and I've never said so. I wouldn't expect a teacher to have to spend extra time with my children, because a, the amount they miss will be negligible and b, I'm perfectly capable of assisting if they do need help. In my case they've never missed more than 4 and a half days, and that was only because I had surgery in Germany 2 years ago and my mum had a stroke the week before so as a single parent it was just easier to take them.

Again, me and my bandages were up the next day and on the trams to Cologne cathedral, the chocolate museum and the German food stalls and then stopped off in Amsterdam on the way home for Anne Frank's House, the architecture and the canal system.

I asked for an outline of what they'd be doing if they were in school and tbf neither of them needed me to help with catch up. This is only a big deal if you make it one, and not everyone should be tarred with the week on a Turkish beach brush!

As I said in my post, I used the word YOU as a general term. I would say that was a unique situation, it wasn't a holiday. There will always be unique situations, but we're talking in general here.

I took my sons out of school for 2 days when their Grandfather died as there was no one else to come and look after them at home. That's not a holiday. We're talking holidays. Whether the teacher is being asked to prepare work to take away with them, or expected to catch the child up when they get home, it's extra work for them.

Granted, but I cannot believe for a minute that any sane parent would expect this if they took their child out of school for any reason, or any sane teacher agreeing to it, so therefore it really should be a non conversation!

They do though - that's my point. It's a common complaint amongst my friends who are high school teachers. Either having to stop a class to catch the child up, or being expected to prepare work to take away. And I know GCSE maths, as an example, these days is way beyond what I ever did (or remember! But husband did further maths a-level and is amazed at the level our son is expected to work at for GCSE).

So, you carry on teaching regardless, and if you're feeling charitable say to the child 'I can spare 10 mins at lunchtime if you're interested?' Or of you're not, don't, and then say to the parent 'I'm terribly sorry Mrs Weekin-Majorca but as this was an unauthorised absence I won't be able to do that...' and if they kick off any half decent HOD would back you. No need for drama, they make their choice therefore they deal with the consequences, if there are any.....

But you can't just leave a child in a class not understanding a section of the curriculum - which the next section probably builds on, and then the next.

As an example, my son has 4 hours of maths a week. A weeks holiday is 4 hours of maths he has missed. Say, 1/4 of that is teaching something they haven't yet learned. They've missed both the learning and the embedding of it. That will need to be taught to the child or it will impact weeks of lessons.

You absolutely can, and while not desirable, your job is to keep the pace up for the other 29 that didn't take time off. Been there and done it. And tbf usually offered the lunchtime or pop and see me after school options though it's absolutely the parent's responsibility to make sure that it's not needed.

Looks like that was a typo for 'conscientious' in the first paragraph? If so, I agree. It's not actually particularly difficult to game, if you've DC who will be in the rest of the time and a bit of planning goes into it. The ones with the lengthy unplanned absences are less likely to be in a position to game the system, and it's not generally holidays that are the problem there.

Because the approach to education is completely different . I think Scotland approach is much closer to Northern European countries that beliefs children need to be happy to learn , so unicorns are relaxed , flexibility is higher , kids are able to start at 5 . England is solely based on grades and targets . My 9 year old has cooking classes , Spanish , French , they learn to beekeep , they don’t stress if we need a few days off either .

Yes, it was a very ironic autocorrect😄

Lmao

But the point she was making is valid. My daughter contracted Chickenpox over Christmas and was not in school for her first week back. Has she lagged behind? No! Would the outcome have been different if she'd gone away for a holiday? No!

We have a weird fascination with taking kids out of school in England and this narrative is fed from the top down. We're now living in a society that continuously judges parents for making personal decisions that they feel would benefit their children.

If the school actively encouraged the occasional holiday, people wouldn't feel it necessary to lie in the first place. Since my kids started school this has raised numerous debates amongst my teacher friends who are all in favour of having a family holiday during term time and accept because of their career choice they don't have that privilege but don't come on here hammering people for it.

Furthermore, I must add, most are bloody miserable and seeking to leave the due to the lack of leniency as well as the impossible task of meeting barely achievable targets. Even my DD teacher gives a wink when she reels off the spiel about impact to learning because she's told to do so and we have to sit opposite and go along with the facade.

So when OP raises the question as to why parents feel the need to lie, perhaps look at the system YOU chose to work in.

I m not a teacher. Just a parent who is against it and pay the hiked prices 😉

seeking to leave the due to the lack of leniency as well as the impossible task of meeting barely achievable targets. Even my DD teacher gives a wink when she reels off the spiel about impact to learning because she's told to do so and we have to sit opposite and go along with the facade.

1. Teachers aren't leaving due to lack of leniency. They're leaving due to 70/80 hour a week workloads.

2. I don't know any teachers who think term-time absence has no affect on learning.

Those might be the opinions of @Whitste1's friend. But is certainly not a universal teacher opinion. Very far from it.

My 9 year old does French, swimming, forest school, yoga, cooking, sewing, art, drama, singing including performances at a medium sized theatre and once a year at The O2 or Albert hall. She started 3 weeks before she turned 5 but could have started once 5.
Time off in termtime was authorised for an important family event.
So not really that different?

@TheAmusedQuail Very far from it. Concerns around termtime absence are a feature of most governor meetings at 2 different schools I cover.
And this is a really flexible school comparatively, the head is compassionate and authorises termtime absences in specific circumstances, when many never authorise. She recognises that 'life happens' and there are times when a child needs to be off, but equally despairs of the 'frequent flyers' who like clockwork take 2 weeks off at the same time every year. They have gone above and beyond, and offered these children small group catch up sessions with teachers offering their time for free before school and during the holidays, but uptake is poor among the very children who need it the most.

From our experience, the biggest reason teachers give for leaving is poor behaviour from pupils, and lack of support/engagement from parents, such as ....taking children out during termtime!

The despair isn't just from the family holiday, it's the lack of family engagement/disinterest and unwillingness to cooperate fullstop, which is obviously detrimental.

We take our child out 1 week on the runup to summer when the school is on "wind down" as my teacher friends put it. We communicate well with DD"a teacher to ensure she has work to take away that can be done on the plane (we go long haul so lots of time)

Our daughter is one of the most achieving in her year group and her teacher says she is obviously naturally academic but also because WE invest so much of OUR time ensuring she is upto speed with the curriculum.

We'd never consider taking her out in the runup to her GCSE's.

I must also say to OP, as a health professional, I don't always have the opportunity to have time off during half term as the holiday pool is limited and needs to be distributed fairly. Also, if I had a term time contract like yours, I'd offset childcare savings against inflated holiday prices and it still probably works out cheaper.