To believe that some people stay broke because they don’t want to make sacrifices?

[ForSharpBrickKoala]

It’s hard to save money but isn’t it true that a lot of people could improve their financial situation if they made different choices? AIBU to think it’s not always about the system?

Well obviously SOME people do just waste money on gambling / drugs / designer clothes when they don't have the income for that / obviously dodgy "investments" / all kinds of non-essential things they can't afford. (Too obvious to even need saying really; I do find OP's question kind of weird). Some people think planning / budgeting is for squares and living within your means is for other people. And some of those people then think other people should bail them out (we've all seen those threads on here).

But most people who struggle in the UK do so because wages haven't gone up in real terms in 16 years and property and childcare etc are so expensive. The fact is a lot of us just aren't paid enough.

Totally agree

Conversely it only takes a small amount of overspending to get into the debt spiral

£10 a day on a credit card x 7 = £70 x 52 = £3,460
It carries on at 0% interest with minimum repayments for 4 years = £14,560
Then something happens a job loss, relationship breakdown, illness and the 0% offers dry up , money is needed for a rental deposit and the stress means decision making is impaired.
Now that £14,560 is at 33% APR
Paying all that extra interest and you probably can't even remember what it was you bought.

It's a complete trap
I understand what the OP means- she is not blaming poor families or those with disabled children
Many reasonably earning people get themselves into debt
I know several people who got into this spiral
Capitalism preys on people's vulnerabilities and offers stuff as the answer.
And no I'm not a miser who sits around a single candle sipping weak tea from used teabagsbefore everyone starts !

I seem to remember shortly after lockdown we were told how bad it was that people were working from home and not spending money on coffee and going out.

DP and I are in our fifties and I guess we've been responsible with our money. But we're comfortable today because we were able to afford a property and interest rates came down a lot after we bought. A young couple today earning relativrly similar wages couldn't hope to build up the financial cushion we have.

For a lot of people, it's not having enough money in the first place rather than what "takes" it. It's wages being too low. It's also the cost of property and childcare and practically everything being too high.

It's usually the system. Not always, but usually.

I don't know why people are insistent on saying 'too many factors'
If you'd said 'EVERYONE could improve their financial situation if they made different choices' then fair enough to wang on about not being able to make a unilateral declaration
but you didn't, you said 'some' and 'a lot' and I completely agree

The statistics about the percentage of people who have no or absolute minimal savings are worrying - yet I think it's highly unlikely there's no overlap between that and people buying non-essentials.

If you've got a less than 2 year old phone on contract, have a takeaway once a week or even month, a regular haircut/nails/wax or go on holiday, or lease a car for anything more than the most basic model, you could save that money instead, but have chosen not to.

Absolutely fair enough if people choose to prioritise buying things and having a good time - no pockets in a shroud etc. But it does annoy me when people absolve themself of any fault when, in many cases, they absolutely could be in a better financial position if they were prepared to make sacrifices (and obviously not sacrifices like not eating or basic necessities).

Why do you think anyone is saying that?

Yes, some people are definitely skint because they don’t make sacrifices…. our family is one of them if I’m honest.

We have no savings at all and despite earning fairly well we live month to month. If we cut back on subscriptions, nicer food, frivolous purchases etc then I think we could make savings quite easily. DH is especially reluctant to go without things whereas a few things I could happily get rid of.

I definitely fall into the category of low savings but also have a car on finance and go on holiday etc etc.

Because honestly - the alternative you describe sounds like a really boring way to live.

I'd definitely be better off if I'd aborted my second pregnancy which turned out to be surprise twins 😅🙄

There was a very similar thread which got zapped immediately. I wonder why @mnhq is letting this one stand.

Something to consider is indeed what happens when everyone makes sensible financial choices. How many industries would go under in this modern world? Goodbye Netflix. Goodbye Apple. Goodbye Easyjet. Goodbye Primark. You know of course that thousands of people would lose their jobs and any sense of security. Plus the knock on effect would be global. You could seriously be looking at complete economic collapse.

Come the cry "get better jobs" "start a business" "retrain in IT" when AI and automation are already decimating a variety of fields.

Retail is being moved towards the gig economy - I think the Telegraph reported that Christmas temps were basically being recruited under a subcontract model last year, and other employers were enthusiastically pricking up their ears - less NI, less pesky employment protection. There's your Precariat class right there - swathes of people unable to put down roots, plan a future, have a family.

I am frugal. I have to be. No assets, no security, at the mercy of the state and age bias. I don't really care about socialising any more, I have TV, I am a widow and of an age where I'm not yet properly old, but am certainly weary of the world that's rapidly developed over the last few years - probably since Covid, to be fair. I stamp down on any wistful wishes for a bigger better life - have tried several times to overcome knock backs only to have the rug well and truly pulled out every time. Nothing about this world makes me want to strive to be a part of it. I'm knackered, disillusioned and poor.

But, ironically, I'm content. It's only stuff. It's only money. There are more important things.

Depends Kids? HA house
No kids? Titchy HA flat

I think the point is some people would choose that option for a short period to generate themselves some more choices and wouldn't see it as making their life shit, they'd see it as short term pain, for long term gain.

I think there is a general tendency in our culture now to not accept short term pain for long term gain. So many things encourage an instant gratification mindset. That's going to make a difference to people's financial decisions.

As a nearly 60 year old and coming from an area which had DV in every third house, functioning alcoholics etc I see a lot of self soothing/trauma healing via the non essentials. Then there's the self medication via smoking, drinking, eating, gambling etc. I agree with the theory that good parenting/caring etc to the age of at least ten is what sets us up to make good decisions/choices. Attachment issues and abusive/toxic relationships often block doing what's best for us.

Can I just share that hours later I am still laughing at “private school pupils with trainers held together with safety pins” 😭😭😭

Thing is, if we all became very frugal, stopped unnecessary spending and saved every penny we could it would be disastrous for the economy, lots of businesses would go under and unemployment would skyrocket.

Every penny my husband earns is because people will pay for something most would consider frivolous.

Absolutely @EilonwyWithRedGoldHair and @MistressoftheDarkSide

but there is a space between those who do not exercise control over their spending and those who do when they can afford to spend. Everyone sits somewhere along that line according to their needs and personality. Push people too much and the money for essential public services disappears in places whether that’s because they have withdrawn from the aggressive consumerism or whether they have no money left to spend.

Excellent post and Capitalism exploits those vulnerabilities

No - I’m absolutely not. Not sure I understand the rest of your post? I didn’t say anyone was creating a certain amount of money? I said 100k cars on hire purchase are a choice, a ludicrous one in my view.

I think you are right. Not sure why so many posters say its impossible to say - the way you phrased your post leaves enough space for people it doesnt apply to.

I think Op has written a reasonable post that merits discussion but the knee jerk defensiveness and silly posts start
Addiction whether drugs, alcohol, food or spending is usually rooted in trauma/ unmet childhood needs/ emotional dysregulation/ MH issues
These type of discussions lift people out of shame -the cycle of addiction- shame-addiction is another spiral .
If one person reads this thread and starts to understand their issues and looks for help it's worth it

I think you misunderstand how poverty impacts on thought processes. It's a lot more complex than the simplicity of Maslow's hierarchy of needs represents, but when your focus is on survival that actively prevents you from thinking long term.

I think financial literacy is the biggest factor for the average person.

It's very easy to fall into the credit card trap, expensive car / loans leases / student debt etc which can take years to dig yourself out of.

And human beings, smart as we like to think we are, are very driven by immediate gratification especially if we don't have any hope of a better future.

The idea of choosing to 'sacrifice' implies that's in exchange for something better down the track and for some people that isn't true.

What system? The having to look after yourself system?

what system?

The neoliberal capitalist, rent-seeking system, That one.