To ask where is the outrage?

[Raspberryrippleflavour]

Found this article on grooming gangs. I was certain there would be outrage on Mumsnet because of all the recent posts on grooming gangs so imagine my shock when there are no comments at all condemning the perpetrators in this shocking story. Could it be because they are white and some people are only interested in protecting children if the perpetrators are from an ethnic minority?

It was one of the top stories on the BBC too.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3vpzvk139xo

Sadly the children were within, so one of the women was the mother 🤦‍♀️ unbelievable the entire thing. Sick horrible how could anyone do this to their own children. She was making money from it 🥲

But the question surely is always why do these men think this is ok?

Are we saying they couldn't help themselves? They saw a 13 yr old child wearing her big sister's lipstick and just couldn't help themselves?

Our teenage daughters should be able to walk the streets of this country wearing skirts and make-up if they want to.

Are we also saying that when we (grown women) go out wearing short skirts and lipstick, we're putting ourselves at risk?

Should we all go out wearing burkas?

The problem is the men, and why they think this is an acceptable way to behave.

Indeed, why do men think it's okay? And of course it isn't an excuse for their actions. But when we look at why white girls are disproportionately at risk of this type of harm, we are thinking about what in our culture might make our teens more vulnerable to predators and grooming.

On that note, the reality is that the 13 year old isn't in her big sisters lipstick, she's in hers. Bought by her parents who don't mind her going out late and couldn't tell her not if they tried.

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That's the thing. People don't want to have honest conversations about their race and culture.

I'm a Romani Gypsy woman and am more than happy to have a conversation about my race and culture. Unfortunately, I don't imagine you're educated enough on my race and culture to be able to engage 🤔

What I won't do is have a conversation with someone who is victim blaming children who have been sexually assaulted and raped.

Lol you'd be surprised. I suggest you read some of my previous posts.

I assume you mean the ones that don't breach MN guidelines and get removed? Lol.

I've seen plenty of outrage about it.

Stop using it for your own agenda.

@JustAskingThisQ with respect, I’m not talking about online forum anecdata, which is just you confirming your own predjudices. I mean real social and cultural research by professionals, and the development and implementation of serious policies based on their findings. I grew up in Scotland, and I can remember kids at school who probably weren’t far from some of those that ended up being abused by those absolute fuckers in Glasgow. But that doesn’t answer any of the important questions. And tbh the Glasgow one is probably less controversial, and this less difficult to research, because there doesn’t seen to be the same racial or cultural element.

but unless we can ask / answer these questions in an informed, robust and neutral way, nothing will change.

You know research is also likely to say that the teens who have parents that drink, take drugs, fail to discipline their kids, give them inappropriate levels of freedom and/or allow them to act and look like adults are likely to be more vulnerable to grooming than those from more stable homes with firm guidelines.

The idea that white parents are lapse isn't a new thing. It's something joked about in non-white comedy all over the world. How White parents have no respect from their kids and their kids walk all over them. It didn't come from nowhere.

You mean the ones you reported outlining what I have experienced growing up as white female in a diverse area.

No, I mean the ones I reported where you are victim blaming children who have experienced sexual assault and rape. MN obviously agreed with me and deleted your post.

Don't bother responding as I have absolutely zero interest in you.

Didn't victim blame anyone who is a victim. I said we should look at why white teens are disproportionately vulnerable to this type of grooming by strangers. I then said what I noticed and is well documented as being noticed by the world itself. White teens have more freedom, more access to alcohol and drugs, less discipline and fewer responsibilities than their peers.

It's just that nobody wants to look at what has happened in our families that mean our kids will do things they don't want to do for a new pair of trainers and a bit of attention. Or that a lot of parents have zero control over their children. Can't even get them to school. But being critical about how we raise our kids as a demographic isn't something white people are very good at. We are great at critiquing other cultures. Less so our own.

The outrage over those white men has been everywhere. As is right and proper. These men were arrested and properly locked up, and no attempt of any kind was made to hush it up or cover it up.

Unlike the thousands of upon thousands of girls raped by Muslim Pakistani rape gangs, where the attempts to hide this horrifying abuse has been systemic and ongoing for decades.

"This resistance to an obvious truth repeated itself across the country. By 2010, a West Midlands Police report showed that authorities were aware that grooming gangs were approaching children at school gates.

But as the report stated, “the predominant offender profile of Pakistani Muslim males… combined with the predominant victim profile of white females has the potential to cause significant community tensions”. As a result, the report remained unpublished until released in response to Freedom of Information (FOI) requests five years later.

In Manchester, a 2019 report concluded gangs were left to roam the streets in part because officers were told to look elsewhere. One detective constable was quoted by a report as saying “the offending target group were predominantly Asian males and we were told to try and get other ethnicities”.

Central government took a similar view. In 2020, the Home Office refused to release its research into grooming gangs, claiming that it would not be in the “public interest” to do so. When it was finally released, it turned out to be a whitewash: a shoddy construction which appeared to deliberately downplay the clear role ethnicity had played in the phenomenon."

Warning - this extremely well cited, sourced, factual piece of investigative journalism contains horrifying details, truly sickening.

And whether you like the Telegraph or not is neither here nor there and if you claim this is not a good source you are exposing your bigotry and determination to ignore the reality of the situation.

The facts, citations and sources are absolutely inarguable.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/01/04/grooming-gangs-scandal-cover-up-oldham-telford-rotherham/

"Fixing this mess starts by uncovering everything. As research by one of us, Charlie Peters, has shown, these gangs have been active in over 50 towns and villages across the UK — and there are no doubt more that we have yet to hear about.

Even as recently as 2021, it emerged that South Yorkshire Police was still failing to record the ethnicity of offenders, with 67 per cent of cases lacking details in Rotherham.

The state must leave no stone unturned in its efforts to root out this evil. As one victim said “a government inquiry is the only way to hold Oldham Council and Greater Manchester Police accountable for their huge failures that led to hundreds of survivors being mistreated and not listened to. A Telford-style inquiry will give answers to survivors but it won’t give justice to those who deserve it.”

"To sustain order in multicultural Britain, the state considered it necessary to apply the law selectively. For decades the most appalling crimes from diaspora groups were legalised and actively covered up to prevent disorder. The rule of law was abandoned...destroying the lives of thousands of working class white girls in the process."

All child rapists should be locked up forever. All of them. And the white men you mentioned have been properly sentenced.

Unlike the Muslim Pakistani rape gangs. Hence the outrage.

Most sex abuse gangs are not Scottish. Seems like bigotry to me.

No, but most are white. They just don't reach the front of the tabloids. Sometimes this is because they involve establishment figures. Sometimes it is because they are from white minority groups which authorities are afraid to target because of cultural sensitivities.

This hasn't been reported in England

And don't you think it would have made front page everywhere if it had been an Asian grooming gang? If anyone can come up with a reason why children in Glasgow being subjected to horrific sexual abuse for 7 years by a gang of people hasn't made the news despite if being public knowledge when it was investigated, and the trial began months ago, I'll be happy to accept that the ethnicity of the perpetrators has no bearing on that.

The perpetrators are appalling, I’m outraged at what they did. The children disclosed and they were helped.

The children were known to social services. There were clear signs they were being abused. They were abused over a 7 year period, that is hard to miss. They may have been let down for some different reasons, but a similar pattern of not believing victims because of their background and circumstances is emerging. We don't know yet if there was a cover up, or why they were failed. I expect there will be more information comes to light as investigations take place. We didn't know everything when Rotherham came to light. It took quite some time before we knew the full picture of how it had been allowed to carry on.

OP is raising a valid point. It isn't race baiting or bigoted or outrageous. It is absolutely clear that the kind of reaction to this story is entirely different because the perpetrators were white. That's not to say those who are drawing a distinction or are suggesting The Asian grooming gang situation is worse are racist. On an individual level I don't believe that is the case. I believe the way the two types of cases are being handled differently in the media is the problem. The responses people have to each case is shaped by the information they read in the newspapers and online, and have done for more than a decade. Opinions are bound to be shaped by that.

Nope. This white grooming gang was widely reported, there was outrage everywhere and they have been duly and properly sentenced, rather than covering it up for decades.

The OP has no point.

For very good reasons, details of this case which make it obvious the MO is very different from the ‘Asian grooming gangs’ have not been reported.

Thank you for spelling it out so clearly for these people who seem to struggle to understand 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

I expect there hasn't been the coverage because it was 3 victims instead of 1000s. Nonetheless they are all disgusting and should be locked up forever.

There was actually loads of coverage too, it wasn't covered up at all and they were appropriately publicly sentenced. Unlike the Muslim Pakistani rape gangs which have been systemically covered up for decades.

Where is it still going on? I don't doubt this, but where?

Do you have personal evidence of these gangs and if so, did you try to report?

What a horrible-looking bunch!

They really are an unsavoury and ugly lot.