Circumcision should be banned.

[ArabellaScott]

https://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2025/01/judge-and-parents-call-for-boys-to-be-protected-from-circumcision

Article describes an upsetting case of two doctors performing these ops without anesthesia, and with sometimes serious side effects. One boy nearly died.

The National Secular Society is running a concurrent campaign to ban all 'religious cutting' - that includes both FGM and male circumcision. I wholeheartedly agree that no baby or child should suffer in this way. More info:

https://www.secularism.org.uk/religious-surgery/

YABU - circumcision for religous reasons is fine
YANBU - circumcision should be banned (unless there is a medical reason)

This is both antisemitic and false (and I am both Jewish and live in the USA). The influence of Jews on American circumcision practices is wildly exaggerated. In fact, there was an active effort to keep Jews out of medicine for a kong time, which is why there are so many hospitals in major cities named things like Beth Israel and Mount Sinai. They were founded by Jewish doctors who weren't allowed to practise in the other hospitals.

Even today Jews are less than 2% of the US population.

It was promoted by 19th and early 20th century doctors who weren't Jewish. John Harvey Kellogg (of cornflakes fame) was a Seventh-Day Adventist who promoted circumcision to reduce masturbation.

The history of circumcision bans has a lot of antisemitism and today Islamophobia.

I lurk on r/PornisMisogyny, & several women there theorise that circumcision partly fuels feelings of sexual inadequacy & consequent misogyny in the US, as it's so common there.

Would you say this regarding FGM though?

I think involuntary (as in parents deciding for their children) male circumcision is as barbaric as female - men can lose sensation and it affects their sex life and can provoke profound mental health issues for assorted reasons. There was an article about a man who committed suicide due to the impact it had had on him a few years ago and more should be publicly discussed about it.

It’s ridiculous that this subject seems taboo or out of bounds just bc it is practised by non-Christian religions. Also the inhumane way animals are butchered in the name of some religions is just as vile. What about child brides? Should they be allowed again? Thats finally being stamped out, and they’re now discussing in hushed tones the matter of banning cousin marriage due to the horrendous impact it has on the children involved with numerous birth defects etc.

Why is C of E allowed to be openly mocked in the media, and in society in general, but the gross customs of others tolerated and worse still protected? Anyone?

It is ludicrous.
I get that a few thousand years ago, poor genital hygiene posed a serious health risk, hence the 'need' for mutilating children...
But in the modern age, fuck your stupid fucking religious fucking nonsense that advocates mutilating children.

A babies foreskin is fused to their penis, in the same way their skin is fused to their fingers. If parents want to pay someone to mutilate their child, perhaps they should have a finger completely skinned with the same level of pain relief as the baby, their finger should then be covered in wee and poo several times a day during the healing process.

I was only interested in adult males

It's more about the child having a choice in what happens to it's own body. When they are 18 then let them decide what they want then. Until then leave the poor kids alone.
Personally I don't even like seeing babies with piercings... fgs leave the kids alone until they can make their own decisions.

circumcision was also encouraged by the military and in canada by the police force (in that at one point it was a requirement) for health reasons (less chance of infection).
generally mn is not in favor of circumcision at all, i've never heard it discussed much in canada some do some don't 100% family preference.
it has health benefits and is easier tolerated in infants than older children.

That graphic is shocking. 100% FGM in many African countries. Whilst FGM is illegal in the UK we now have a court dedicated to FGM cases as it happens here albeit hushed up of course.
We need to stop migration from these places, FGM has no place in the UK. The law matters nothing to these people who want to practice their culture.

Yes, we must stamp out anti Semitic reasoning. The people on the subreddit told me about Kellogg, & some theorise that the US medical establishment profits from later circumcision issues so wants it to happen. I don't know, but there def are issues w the US healthcare system.
I also lurk on the men's rights reddits to get a sense of antifeminists' arguments to counter them. One rare instance where I agreed w them was when they shut down a subreddit where mothers were posting pics of their sons crying after circumcision & laughing about it! Horrible.

Circumcision can lead to sexual dysfunction and always leads to reduced sensation, regardless of what some religions claim. Risk of infection is also significant. I'd call reduced sensation a lifelong downside.

THIS.

Your child's body, your child's CHOICE.

I have no issue with religious beliefs but you don't get to decide for your children.

Same applies for ear piercing etc. It's not your body

END OF!

We’re talking about the legalities of it on this thread. Therefore the moral limits of the majority absolutely should trump the “moral limits” of a minority in this county in law. Obviously a very extreme example but that’s like saying because it’s legal to stone women who have committed adultery in other countries and cultures that they can do it here even if it makes us uncomfortable. No murder is illegal in any and all circumstances in this country. Child abuse is also illegal in this country and cutting off bits of a child’s body without anaesthetic with no medical need is child abuse full stop.

@Zebedee999 please note that the WHO recommends adult voluntary circumcision in africa to prevent HIV and other serious sexually transmitted diseases.

Well said

I don't with either male or female circumcision - whilst I male circumcision may be harmful than female circumcision, it can reduce sensation in later life.

It's not that simple. Protestants are not normally persecuted in the UK. They don't tend to belong to different ethnic groups that face prejudice, as Jews & Muslims do. I agree these practices need to be criticised, & as agnostic former Christian I don't like mockery of Christians either. Otoh the C of E deserves the flack, Welby is a disgrace. Criticising an institution is different from criticising adherent in general imo.

@knitnerd90 The history of circumcision bans has a lot of antisemitism and today Islamophobia.

Not everything you dislike is due to "antisemitism."

It should absolutely be banned. My father had both of my brothers cut against mother's wishes. Over 50 years later, they still live with the consequences.

It is an abhorrent practice.

Circumcision leads to potentially permanent adjustment or pain thresholds, so those individuals will always find things more painful than uncut men.

As for HIV prevention, there are other methods than mutilating babies to prevent it.

That is about male circumcision, not FGM. Read properly before spouting xenophobic nonsense.

This doesn't sound true.

Whataboutery at its finest!!!

Cutting the end of baby dicks off is never ok (sometimes without anaesthetic)

FGM is abhorrent too which is the worse mutilation is an argument no one wants to win

If you think either is ok, you are a horrible human!

I read in a Gloria Steinem book that circumcision can increase sensitivity by exposing more of the sensitive area. She overall stated that, while not comparable to FGM, it's mainly an act of submission to a patriarchal God. I think I agree- but does anyone agree about the possible increased sensation? I stil think any benefits are not worth infant circumcision.

The thread developed and has covered male and female circumcision as well as the rights of the child.
Childish to suggest my not wanting FGM in this country is xenophobic. It's done to 100% of girls in large parts of the world and done in the UK now too despite it being illegal. Such is the problem there is even a court set up to handle FGM cases. Why you consider it xenophobic NOT to want this practice in the UK is beyond me, I don't want it here. What's your reason for not being bothered by it?