Circumcision should be banned.

[ArabellaScott]

https://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2025/01/judge-and-parents-call-for-boys-to-be-protected-from-circumcision

Article describes an upsetting case of two doctors performing these ops without anesthesia, and with sometimes serious side effects. One boy nearly died.

The National Secular Society is running a concurrent campaign to ban all 'religious cutting' - that includes both FGM and male circumcision. I wholeheartedly agree that no baby or child should suffer in this way. More info:

https://www.secularism.org.uk/religious-surgery/

YABU - circumcision for religous reasons is fine
YANBU - circumcision should be banned (unless there is a medical reason)

I wouldnt consider them quite the same either. I don’t agree with either but fgm can prevent a woman from ever being able to enjoy sex/ reach orgasm. Circumcised men may have a lack of sensitivity due to calcification of the head of the penis but it’s not the same degree of damage/ repercussions that women face.

I think by putting them on the same level you minimise the harm caused to women.

I don’t think they are the same but I guess I am drawing a difference in the magnitude of the impact rather than the moral or philosophical question about whether it’s ok to harm your child for no objective benefit to them. In that respect I don’t think considering them alongside each other minimises the impact or issue of FGM.

So if men prefer big boobs we should give all teen girls implants?

For me the long term sexual satisfaction of men is NOT the issue here, it is unecessary body modification on babies and children unless prescribed by a Medical professional.
Even if there were many many studies (there aren't) which say men who have been circumsized have a much better sex life it still shouldn't be done on babies. Who the hell looks at their tiny baby and says "if we cut this bit off he will have better sex"

Of course it should be banned. Mutilating a child's genitals because of religion or culture has no place in modern Britain. It should carry a sentence on par with FGM for the practitioners and serious consequences for any parents involved, because frankly any parent that thinks that chopping bits off a child is OK should be watched closely by social services.

This just popped up on the BBC.
One child nearly died.

This quote made me shudder
"non-therapeutic male circumcision is unregulated and not required to be carried out by a medical practitioner"

Yet, those who pierce ears need licences and are regulated by local authorities. Chopping bits off babies, perfectly fine apparently.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce3l1pw1gwxo

Late onto this discussion but the level of religious ignorance is astonishing. No Jewish or Muslim person think that God has made a mistake. That's why circumcision is only required for members of the faith. Unlike many forms of Christianity we don't claim to have a monopoly on the truth or have any wish to legislate for them. What non-Jews or Muslims do is up to them.

As for a legal ban, does anyone seriously think that the govt would have the slightest interest in hacking off the Jewish, Muslim and many Christian/African communities? The only benefit that this batshit proposal would have is to bring those groups together in opposition to the idea. DH has relatives living in a place that regulated but didn't ban the practice. Some of them left the country and went to Israel, others just went ahead regardless.

"The only benefit that this batshit proposal would have is to bring those groups together in opposition to the idea."

Aside from protecting children from having the procedure forced upon them?

What non-Jews or Muslims do is up to them.

@samG76 You're not doing it to yourselves though are you? You're inflicting it on a foreskin that doesn't belong to you.

A child actually died here - Ireland- a couple of years ago. Of course it should be banned unless it's a medical necessity.
Cue loads of American posters , shroud waving about penile cancer or some such.

samG76 · Today 18:09

Late onto this discussion but the level of religious ignorance is astonishing. No Jewish or Muslim person think that God has made a mistake. That's why circumcision is only required for members of the faith. Unlike many forms of Christianity we don't claim to have a monopoly on the truth or have any wish to legislate for them. What non-Jews or Muslims do is up to them.

But babies haven't chosen that faith. As a country that is becoming less religious I'd hope that the laws that protect children trump any pandering to a tiny minority of people who think mutilating children is ok.

Gothenthere - the tiny minority being about 20% of the population who actually do it, plus quite a few who don't do it but don't have a problem with others doing so. And I don't think studies do show the country is becoming less religious. I think it shows CofE members becoming atheists (which isn't much of a change, in truth) but other religions thriving.

If people are harming children with irrevocable genital surgery in the name of religion, and thinking that’s wrong is being ignorant, then I’m happy to be called ignorant in that circumstance.

There is a line as to what is morally acceptable or not, whether religiously motivated or not, and cosmetic / non-medically necessary surgery on children or infants is way way over that line in my view.

I don’t care how small the minority that does it is, anyone doing it is unacceptable. And while I understand there is going to be a reluctance to upset the groups that do it, that’s cowardice in my view, because protecting children should trump upsetting people. Every time.

I’m in the US, where we’ve got a much higher circumcision rate than the UK. A lot of the reasons people have over here are, IMO, incredibly stupid. “It’s cleaner! He won’t look like his father if he isn’t circumcised!” My husband and I had daughters, but before having kids, we agreed that we wouldn’t circumcise sons if we had them.

However, I think a genuine belief that God commands it of your people to symbolize the covenant between God and Abraham is, as these things go, a much more respectable reason. And I think Jews have been through enough for the last few millennia without a bunch of gentiles decreeing that they can’t perform an important ritual in their religion.

Agree with this.

Theyre entirely different.

But I would like to see a ban on modifications to children’s bodies and that includes war piercings. Cultural and religious reasons never trump the welfare or autonomy of a child

I'm just going to say it again Can parents stop cutting their babies?

My sister getting my niece's ears pierced at two was bad enough, can it just stop?

This is my feeling as well. I think lots of Christians have decided religion is a load of rubbish but other religions haven't. Why do you think that is?

When my teenage daughter wanted her ears pierced, she was asked to sign the consent form herself. Rightly so - it was her body, her choice.

If men choose to have their healthy foreskin cut off then and want to consent to this then fine. Their body, their choice.

If adults choose to cut off the healthy foreskin of their little boys then this is isn't fine. It's their body. It's their choice.

The Children Act 2004 made it illegal to assault a child causing actual or grievous bodily harm, I'd say in law it's already covered and it's about time more people were prosecuted and not allowed to use religion as an excuse for their heinous acts.
Kendodd
This is my feeling as well. I think lots of Christians have decided religion is a load of rubbish but other religions haven't. Why do you think that is?
I'd say because in the UK many minority groups have "ghettoised" themselves over the years for understandable reasons of safety, familiarity and support and I expect growing up, if that's the only world you know (that has deep seated religious influence) then it would be hard to break away from that influence.

Kendodd - there are lots of Christians around (a number of well known footballers, for example), but none of those who speak up seem to be in the CofE. In my view that's because the CofE has lost any idea of belief or values, but for a lot of minorities religion is and always was an important tribal marker. I don't think it's anything to do with ghettoization.

Absolutely this

Do people really not understand the difference between male and female circumcision?
The main difference is that a man can consent to male circumcision when he is old enough to understand the consequences.
A woman can never consent because the procedure is so harmful its illegal for medical staff to perform.

Any God that prescribes mutilation of childrens genitals isn't one worth following

Men have a foreskin for a reason, it shouldn't be taken off and certainly not for religion and certainly without any anaesthetic!

I don’t think these rules were proscribed by god they were made by the men of the time. If you live surrounded by sand with limited water then I imagine you can get some pretty nasty infections under a foreskin. The same goes for a lot of food based rules, perhaps more hygiene led but with god said so people would follow the rules.

Prople were a pretty dirty lot back then (comparatively) I do think lots of people have stepped away from religion as it’s failed to keep pace with modern life.

Imagine using religion to justify the mutilation of your child. As a parent you are meant to care and protect your child, not abuse them.