Life as a lawyer

[nestaarchy]

Would love some advice from other female lawyers.

I am a 4PQE lawyer, working at a city firm in disputes. I am really struggling. The partners are constantly making me feel stressed and anxious. I try really, really hard on all the work I do and they are constantly critical. We will discuss what to do, I will send a draft/plan and it will be agreed and then when I draft the letter/email/court document they say, why have you done that? Because it is literally what we have agreed! Then they say, well I've changed my mind. Am I a mind reader?

Sorry for the rambling but I'm feeling so down. I feel like I'm rubbish at my job and I cry so much because it's so stressful. I speak to friends around my age/level and they say they have similar things with partners essentially rewriting work/heavily marking it up and it's not a reflection on me. I just feel like I'm criticised all the time and I find it so demoralising and my self confidence has been absolutely shattered.

Just looking for advice from anyone who's been through something similar. Thanks

Oh love, that’s just what they do…. (20 peeker here who fucked off in-house after making partner!) One of the few good things I will say about law firm management is that they don’t suffer fools gladly. If they thought you were crap, you’d be out, either through performance management or through a comp agreement.

Your “problem” is that you are a diligent and no doubt intelligent person who wants to do a good job and (wild guess) some of your colleagues may lack the emotional intelligence to appreciate what being near the bottom of the seniority league is like. There are undoubtedly some ego-driven partners who use the drafting process as a means of crushing juniors. (I had a partner rip up a draft letter, then order me to pick up the shreds. I refused, so on his office floor they stayed. For weeks, because he never went home).

More typically, it’s a process where multiple layers of people review, draft, mark-up and strategise, and it’s not personal. When I was a partner, I used to give my own work a haircut a lot of the time. Try to take some of the power back - offer your own feedback on the seniors’ input, constructively suggest why a particular strategy might or might not work, speak out if you think something has been overlooked or marked-up for the worse. Try to see it as a collaborative effort rather than a pile-on, because (unless you have been told otherwise) that’s how the partners will view it.

I’m not suggesting it’s an easy work environment - far from it, and I left BigLaw for this and many other reasons. But you’ve only been doing this for 4 years, so give yourself a bit of grace.

@Vinvertebrate thanks so much for responding! I am hoping to go in house too. The issue is we're actively TTC and really hoping to be pregnant soon. Ideally I'd move after mat leave. The unknown is so difficult though and having to plough on in the meantime!

I'll just keep trying my best, there's nothing else to do really

Hang on in there learn all you can don’t let them get you down get your mat leaves out of them then fuck thrm off find a niche you enjoy and are good at and set up on your own. Then you are self employed and can work round the kids /teens but earn lots with no boss. Can recommend!

My first firm was like this and it was so demoralising. I now work in a team which is so much more respectful and pleasant. It sounds drastic but I would consider moving; there are firms out there with a much better culture.

Is it an American firm?

In my experience solicitors can just be extremely critical and contrary people. My boss frequently tells me to do something and then gets annoyed at me for doing it. It's possibly also them being scatter brained which they often are and they forget they told you to do something. It's rare in my experience to get much praise at all in law. Try not to take it personally imo and get that mat leave out of them.

Thank you. There's an area I'm trying to build expertise in. I'm writing articles in my spare time too to raise my profile in it. I want to go in house in that area eventually so trying to be smart about it

I'm glad you managed to find somewhere better for you!

Thanks. It's so hard not to take it personally but I'm starting counselling re this soon and will explore it there.

Here's hoping I'm on mat leave soon!

It’s obviously not great timing if you are TTC and don’t want to move right now, but this could definitely be a firm problem and not a you problem. When I qualified in a national firm I hated it and was convinced I’d made entirely the wrong career choice. I was approached by another firm and thought I’d give it a shot - I was thinking of leaving law altogether, so thought I’d have a go and see if a different firm might be better. It was. Miles better for me.
Different firms are good for different people. When you’ve done your at leave, maybe look at in house or another firm, it could definitely be that rather than the law in general!

I think this might be your firm/the specific partners you work for. Some people are toxic, but most aren't. I feel like the partners I work for are genuinely supportive and caring (although that doesn't mean I don't get screwed by them I.e. having to meet aggressive deadlines, being given too much to do etc) but they don't make me feel belittled or crap. I would maybe consider looking at other firms. If not, can you try working for different partners in your team? There might be one or two that you gel much better with.

OP, it’s not your fault your manager isn’t thinking things through and giving you proper instructions. In my experience partners would often fire off instructions and then it was only after they reviewed the draft that they refined their thinking. This can explain a lot of redline. It is completely normal in a work context. It also used to make me smile when counsel would rewrite a partner’s drafting. This process does result in much higher quality work for the client, but I do understand that it can be demoralising. It will get better.

Some counselling may help you to develop tools to protect yourself from getting so discouraged. You need to find an inner voice that is in your corner to balance out the negativity. Lawyers can be so awkward and critical. If you can find a way to accept and move past that, while also learning, then you will be on a path towards success

The leadership will set the tone, and your firm sounds pretty brutal TBH. It’s not personal and lawyers tend to make terrible managers.

They will have been promoted because they bring loads of money and or business in to the firm.Not for their people skills

I have worked in house after several years of private practice, and I have not encouraged my children to follow me in to law

It’s not personal, learn what you can, and look for a better fit.

If they are not being supportive and helping you to learn, this is a them problem, not a you problem.

There are partners who rewrite everything and others who barely look at drafting and leave you to sink or swim. You can learn from both types but both can be demoralising.

Learning to change what is essential but allowing a junior to develop their own style is a very difficult skill to learn as a supervisor, but there is no excuse for being rude about it.

If you need to stay to bank the maternity leave then go for it but maybe take your foot of the pedal for a bit or you'll drive yourself crazy. Then after your maternity leave, find somewhere supportive. There are plenty of commercial disputes teams that are not like this!

Fab advice

Agree with PP that it’s often only when looking at what they’ve asked for will a senior person realise it’s not the right approach. I re do pieces of work all the time and it’s hard not to get frustrated. Try and change your response though “Ok got it Jill, the brief has changed since we last spoke, I’ll adjust. If anything else changes, please let me know soonest so I can incorporate that into the new draft”. What you have done isn’t wrong, law moves at pace and it can be a changing situation. Try not to take it personally. If the work was truly rubbish, they wouldn’t be asking you to do it at all.

OP, I feel for you. Your area of the law is very tough and it often attracts driven big egos with limited soft skills. As PPs have said, don’t take it personally and learn as much as you can. Aim to leave after your mat. leave. This said, I don’t think you should stay there for too long, for your own wellbeing (I readily take the point that you have accrued maternity rights at your current firm). I’m 30 years PQE and now work happily part time as a sole practitioner, but I’ve done time in a City firm and know that it’s super competitive and alpha….not for me. If it helps, the Times recently reported on young solicitors who’ve left the City and the article made the general point that many lawyers are highly conscientious personality types, some are prone to perfectionism, it’s an anxious profession…and that’s why it’s doubly hard to deal with critical, demanding managers. Hang on in there, your working life WILL get better. You’re in the trenches now, but you have a qualification and training that will stand you in good stead for years. Do stay as calm and “light” as you can though, if you are TTC. Take your lunch hour if you can, enjoy your weekends etc. X

This is really team specific, very much a culture issue. But it is compounded by being in Litigation.

I felt so stressed when I was doing litigation and eventually I left that division. What a relief. I had a sector specialism that allows me to move across to a contentious-and-non-contentious role in another part of the firm that needed me, then I just sort of stayed. Can 100% recommend. Plus transactional lawyers get paid more in my firm.

Litigation attracts some Grade A wankers.

It sounds as if you are doing a good job - and no doubt if you weren't, you'd have been told so! I think quite often it's the case in these types of work that you agree to draft something according to Plan A, it's drafted, and on revision and consideration, the flaws in Plan A become clear and therefore you get a list of XYZ that needs to be altered.
It's not personal, it's a style and a pattern of hard, focused work, not an attack. Litigation is fast-moving and changing, but it doesn't mean you aren't good at it. It does suit some people - I certainly don't mind it, because it is low on verbiage, focused, and doesn't particularly upset me. I don't think I'd be a particularly good people-manager or team leader, though, and fortunately for all concerned I'm not.
I'm a lot more senior than you, which almost certainly makes it much easier.
Is it possible you'd enjoy a different area of law more? There are a lot of different possibilities, can you look at a sideways shift?

I agree with others. The first draft is often the hardest. The next step is often to pull it apart a bit and shift things around. Or even think it over and realise a different structure is better. That doesn't mean what you did isn't good,.it's just part of the process.

Indeed I would only want to give the task to someone who would make a decent stab at the first draft so I had something worthwhile to build on.

Agree too though that litigation gets way more than it's fair share of wankers.

Slight tangent but as an ex city litigator- please move jobs NOW. I didn’t, I hung on because we were TTC and I wanted the mat pay and didn’t want to join a new place and then get preg too quickly. In the end it took 11 months to get pregnant… I clung on for 2 kids and then burned out from trying to juggle 2 non sleeping kids with City litigation. At that point I didn’t feel up to interviewing for in house, I became a reluctant SAHM. I really really wish I’d moved at the stage you’re at now, into a job that actually works with kids.

Agree by the way that endless mark ups are the way it is. I’ve had partners remove from the third draft sentences they had themselves inserted in the previous mark up… Does sound like yours are particularly rude about it though. We had a couple of those, they were notorious but luckily I didn’t work for them.

There are lots of different team cultures in different firms. Maybe you have a particularly critical group of partners, so is it worth moving elsewhere? At 4pqe you will be a very attractive hire and you can’t be fired for being pregnant. Equally there is value in learning to accept what you cannot change, including the fact that even when you do things just as asked, you will get inevitable feedback and changes. Many lawyers are absolute buggers when it comes to reworking / redoing documents - just can’t help it! And disputes in my experience often attracts real perfectionist pedants.
Finally, is there any possibility you’re not interpreting instructions correctly? Always worth considering. I do know many partners who complain that lots of the younger cohort are very thin skinned, say they want feedback but really just want a lot of positive affirmation.

More generally building up your resilience and learning to manage any anxiety will be very important. That starts with your own inner voice

One thing I do try and do though is point out to more junior lawyers whether my amendments are just my personal style preferences or actual corrections because there is an error.

I remember this as a junior lawyer the marking up. Really knocked my self worth and self esteem. I left the law, go in-house OP! As a litigator there will be roles out there, get onto LinkedIn.