Axel Rudakubana

[Dylanxoxo]

I haven't seen anything in articles I have read about Axel Rudakubana today about a mental health assessment. His behaviour is so extreme, that it is difficult not to suspect he is suffering from an untreated mental health condition. Does anyone else think that mental illness may be at the root of his horrific crimes?

They can, obviously. They don’t want to. Or they’ve been told not to more like.

She was saying she’d worked with children who’d done “the same or worse” than his earlier crimes - attacking a child with a hockey stick, carrying a knife to school, attacking his parents, smashing up his house. So there are lots of these kids, and 99.99% of them won’t go on to become spree killers.

I don’t know if they end up in the criminal justice system for other reasons, or if they just stay in their rooms and abuse their families. Or if they grow up and sort themselves out. If @soupfiend does know, I’d be really interested to hear, but I don’t know if that sort of long term outcome data is routinely collected.

Antisocial personality disorder cannot be diagnosed before the age of 18, in accordance with diagnostic manuals. Others can, if behaviours have been present for more than a year and are persistent and pervasive. But even this is very controversial as personality by its nature is still forming in childhood and well into adolescence.

I dont agree with the ever growing aim of inclusion to mean that children who years ago should and would have been in specialist provision, now need to be in mainstream. That fails the child and the rest of the group in my view where the child's needs are not really being met in mainstream.

I want to highlight this again as it's really a crucial point.

It is massively failing children that a child can threaten or use violence as the perpetrator did and just have to accept it

Even adults don't accept that in the workplace, why should more vulnerable children?

Politicians who talk about increasing inclusion at all cost concern me

For every violent pupil disrupting classes there are hundreds of parents and carers who do not want this child in the class or even in the school - no one asked us about inclusion at all costs - just not fair, what does the rest of Europe do?

For every child who is disruptive there will be parents and teachers looking for solutions and there aren’t any. There are nowhere near enough special school places. Herts Beds and Bucks places could be filled 5 times over with kids who are failing in mainstream and there isn’t an alternative.

He was born in the UK.

You are saying by your post that all my childhood friends and classmates who were refugees should not have been allowed in the UK as some of them were escaping massacres as they could have gone on to have children like him.

Someone has just mentioned femicide and the violent war on women at the moment could this be his motive who knows, we're the names on the hockey stick girls?

No. He's just plain evil. You might as well try to intercede with the devil.

I agree. Not just violent pupils but disruptive pupils who blight our schools. It’s deeply troubling.

We have a Twitter war against the Michaela school but their pupils do so well. I don’t get it.

I dont know the actual data long term unfortunately and I suspect any measurement would be somewhat flawed

Lets say there are 10 children who exhibit harmful behaviour to others, a mixture physical harm, sexualised behaviour, problems with empathy, bullying, etc etc

Out of those some many continue into adulthood and start to be subject to criminal procedures more and more. Some may continue their behaviour but not get caught. Some might not continue their behaviour. Some may be anti social/disruptive types, the type you dont want to live next door to, but theres no criminal element as such so they dont really come to the police's attention to the extent that there is intervention
Some may then come to the attention of social services later because they go on to have their own children, and there are concerns about their parenting, again not at a criminal level necessarily but certainly at a level where harm is caused to a child by their needs not being met.

I dont think a blunt measurement of whether they are subject to the criminal justice system as adults really gives a full picture of the overall harm and disturbance that young people like this go on to cause. And of course the vast majority of them are vulnerable themselves in that they may have experienced abuse, harm, neglect, poor MH, grooming, county lines, may be ASD/ADHD, may have other disorders.

Bottom line is, no one is interested in how to protect them but protect society as well.

I haven't said anything of the sort, sorry if it came across that way. I was trying to make the point that, immigrant or not, black or white, some people are just evil.

People call for immigration to be reduced and for people like Axel's parents "to go back home". But that doesn't count for someone like Ted Bundy in America, does it?

For me, there is more of link between people who commit serial or mass murders/attacks, and lone wolf terrorists, than people like to think about. Mostly because lots of serial killers have been white natives.

No, he would have done it, or something similar, wherever he ended up probably.

I know there were suggestions that he was bullied and that was a trigger, but lots of people are bullied and don't do this.

Some people are just evil. My point of comparing his actions to that of Ted Bundy (who was a white native to the US, with no Internet or extremist influence) is just to show that these people exist in all walks of life and any calls for people like Axel to "go back home" are absolutely ridiculous.

I think we need to tackle men's mental health from a young age more seriously. If there is serious bullying or depression, men are more likely to commit suicide or commit crimes against others.

Sorry to message again @Reugny - I reread what I wrote and I did speculate about tighter immigration and for that I am sorry. I don't agree with that view personally - I have just seen it as an argument.

I think we need to do better to understand and protect young boys from turning out this way, regardless of race or background.

The argument about immigration is unknown people coming in who may have had links elsewhere. Rudakabana sent off red flags for years in the UK that nobody did anything about.

A lot of white British men kill people too.

But he was born here and was socialised here.

I can understand people's concerns about people coming in without papers or any information about previous convictions or ties to extremism.

But this wasn't that.

If he was bullied to such an extreme that he turned that hatred and shame outwards and onto innocent young girls (like many school shooters in America do) then we need to do more to prevent bullying and support those affected.

I know that won't bring back those girls, but prevention may save others.

@LeBonBon if he took a hockey stick in to assault a student then it's hard to know if he was exhibiting early signs of aggressive response unrelated to bullying, paranoia or other

Pp have posted the child didn't know him

I was replying to the posted who made a comment about immigration. I'm making the same point as you. He was born here, lived here and all his red flags were here. This is not an immigration issue , unless you want to try and blame his parents for coming to the UK.

He might have been bullied by other kids in other contexts, he might not hav ebeen bullied but believed he was being so

He might also have bullied others

He might have been outcast and treated differently or isolated because he was ND and therefore couldnt bond/had strange behaviours. He might have believed that was bullying. We dont know

But either on this or anther thread there is an insight into his strange thinking about why he was doing things, wanting to take a knife out with him so that he would get into trouble which would lead the police to delete his tiktok account which he seemed not able to do because he was embarrassed by photos on it

A weird take on actions and consequences and skewed logic behind his behaviour.

They do yes. This guy killed 5 people, including a 3 year old girl.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/18/plymouth-shooter-jake-davison-fascinated-by-mass-shootings-and-incel-culture-inquest-hears

@EasternStandard that's why I compare him to the likes of Ted Bundy - some people are just prone to extreme violence and I'm not sure any prevention would stop it.

There's been studies about the effects of too much testosterone causing violence in men. What could have possibly happened to Axel in the summer between the ages of 12-13?

This isn't being looked at enough. Is there no possible hormonal treatment for men we can look at?

British Government are very shy on subjects like 2nd generation terrorism but Daniel Khalifa
and The Westminster bomber are 2
TheAmericans are less shy since 9/11
The Orlando nightclub
San Bernardino shooter
Fort Hood
Boston Marathon
The word on the hood is that his dad was some kind of warlord linked to the Rwanda Genocide well maybe the truth will out in a year or two
If you have ever been to lovely Southport you will wonder how this could possibly happen

Are people who are 2nd generation more likely to be terrorists than others? I wasnt aware of this