Do you put work before DC?

[Saycheeseburgers]

I work in a male team where my colleagues put work first, without a doubt. Working late most nights, skipping taking their children to activities in favour of working.

I just won’t do this. I imagine it might impact my promotionability, but I don’t believe it should so for now I don’t care. I work hard during my work hours, but I finish by 5-5:30pm to meet my DC needs. I don’t miss Christmas shows or assemblies (I take my own flexi time to make up for these).

@Spudstogo I don't understand your point? How have you conflated me saying that the teachers I know get personal leave with me thinking my dc should not get medical attention if needed? Bizarre!

P.S DBIL is a GP and my circle includes other GPs and surgeons, some are at the dcs school too. They have been present at a xmas play..

Now relative who works on an oil rig does miss stuff but I never claimed every single job has flexibility!

No, you have to have a balance.

But I suspect it's your company or the culture that's the issue here. I work in a male dominated environment and all the dads are really actively engaged with their kids, doing pick up, activities, school assembly etc. but our company encourages it.

DHs has a more demanding job than me but wfhs 2 days a week & does 4 drop offs.

Have they actually said that they skip activities with their children in favour of working? Perhaps your colleagues are the sole earners in their household. If they aren’t bringing the money in, no one is. So they will obviously place more emphasis and importance on their job ( and keeping it). Two parents don’t really have to go to every activity do they? Quite reasonable for one parent to go.

No, and an employer who tries to pressure me to won't find me working for them long.

I think what the OP is getting at is that men are more inclined to subscribe to the ‘presenteeism’ culture and gain brownie points for staying late despite doing the same amount of work as a woman who leaves on time to prioritise her kids.

I've worked with men in the past who openly avoid going home until after their kids bed time/bath time!

They're avoiding childcare

They are dickheads

They are also the foot soilders of the patriarchy

I wonder how many people who are saying they prioritised their children over everything and cut their working hours down are the main or equal earner in the household.

Jsndidndnnd

I earn £120k and I leave on time for my kids and put their needs first. DH and i both do our share.

No - work came first when I had no DC, I worked shifts, evenings, weekends, overtime, whatever was thrown at me before DC. Now I have DC they come first.

It’s a ridiculous sense of self importance as well I think. No one will die if you log off at 5pm to take your child to rugby practice. If you stay on until 7pm, what will you actually achieve in that time?

It is always men, isn’t it.

I’ve got friends who are both high earners, high profile jobs. They don’t collect their children from nursery later than 5-5:30pm.

Meh - I've spent my career watching men with children do unecessary busy work either because they're incompetent, it stokes their ego or it means they avoid childcare and domestic work or usually a combination of the three.

I agree and I am also sceptical about the idea they are always working late because they have to- if a lot of my male colleagues spent less time on lunches, unnecessarily long calls and trying to micromanage anything to do with their own clients rather than letting people get on with stuff they would probably be done by 5.30. Nothing more efficient than a woman who has to get through her to do list to get back from school pick ups in my experience!

Absolutely this!

These things are all relative, though, aren't they? I know people who think that any mother who works outside of school hours, or at all if kids aren't school aged, are putting work over their children. They would judge you as hard as you judge your colleagues.

I'm more like you, in that family comes first and work is a necessity but not a priority.

I remember before I had children of my own I worked in an office job, I started insanely early (it was receptionist so I needed to open the phones etc at 7am) but as a "reward" (as I saw it) I finished comparatively early too, so 2 in the afternoon so I could do my studies. I was astonished that the PA to the CEO would always be sat at her desk before I arrived, and on the occasions where I swapped shifts and would do the pm shift finishing at 7pm, she would be sat at her desk until after I left so I worked out she basically worked in the office from 6:30am till 7:30-8pm EVERY DAY and rarely took holiday time.

I actually had less respect for her than I did my direct manager who would work ordinary hours, because the PA to the CEO despite her job title and remunerations had two children to look after herself, but she prioritized writing emails and booking travel and hotels for some bloke at the head of the company over her own family.

I thought to myself "I never want to be like that".

I have the same feeling towards men who don't spend any time at home. What's the point of having children at all ?

Absolutely not. DD comes first always.

My thoughts exactly.

No, but I don't put work before DC (or rather, didn't, they are young adults now) but I didn't always put DC before work either. Nor did I always put DC before other family, friends, fun and adventure. I'm not even sure what a life would look like where I literally made all my decisions about how to spend my time on the basis of what would be "best" for DC. How would you even know??

But certainly, there were times when I worked longer than I absolutely had to, and that time could have been spent with DC. I'm an academic, I don't even have fixed contracted hours and holidays. Sometimes I worked on Good Friday (for example). Sometimes I attended evening events that I didn't have to. But they had a father and good childcare and they turned out just fine!

It's never been an either or for me.

I used to work in the emergency services and was regularly late off. I missed countless family events. So you could say I put work first, but I'd have lost my job has I not. As a lone parent I didn't have that luxury. However, I have since left the role because my DD needed me in a way that was incompatible with that job so I put her first and left a job I was good at and loved for something more flexible. I don't regret it and nowadays earn more and have less stress anyway.

However, this whole thread is an illustration of why the gender pay gap exists post children.

This 200%!!! The micromanaging and inefficiency and long winded, nonsensical ways of making every task over complicated.

Like you say, I like to get the work done to finish at a normal time!

This is someone who also never takes holidays. Self importance as I said.

I have to say I put everything before work - DC, friends, my own health. I work hard during my working day, but it’s not even close to being a top priority.

I openly say that it comes from a place of luxury of being in a place where I won’t be sacked and my work isn’t dependent on targets etc like some sales jobs might be.

I see you and I raise you dramatically ushering people into meeting rooms for frightfully important private chats which are basically neither. There is one prime offender at my gaff. The number of emails and dictations I bosh through while he is flouncing about melodramatically is quite astonishing.

Judgey, much?

I work hard. I like work. My job matters. My kids are happy. They are well cared for. They don’t need me home at 5.30 every day. We all find our own path and there are lots of ways…. I am not sure characterising it as “kids first or work first” is very helpful. Obviously in a crunch kids are top, but being a good parent is compatible with working a lot. (And also with not!)