To think we need to re-think security for children's schools and clubs following Southport

[caffelattetogo]

Before I start, this is absolutely not blaming the victims or anyone who organised the holiday club in Southport. It's easy to be wise after the event.

But, I really think that we need new risk assessments for anywhere that children are, ones that look more at their safety. These monsters target children, so anywhere that children are needs to think about locked doors, video doorbell cameras, extra security measures, anything we can to keep them safer.

Mental health services are struggling and the early warning signs are being missed. We have dangerous people free to plan activities like this, and while we shouldn't need to, I think we need to be aware.

I have thought about this when planning my children's clubs following the attack, and chosen ones with better security measures.

Similarly, I'm concerned about the security at DCs' school and nursery, where doors are often left open.

I know these attacks are rare, but I would feel safer knowing that they were behind locked doors.

AIBU?

The logical extension of this is to ban all school trips, outdoor learning, football clubs, soft play centres, scout camps etc or anywhere groups of children gather together.

We need to start thinking more about risk benefit rather than trying to remove every small risk. And in doing so expose children to the far greater risk of the Internet.

That's not the logical extension, that's a hyperbolic reach to try and make a point.

Imo schools and clubs where there are lots of children to adults should have risk assessments anyway- OP feeling uncomfortable that her child's school doesn't seem to have any sort of protection isn't unreasonable. Risk mitigation also happens for those activities you have listed, do you think they don't?

I'm very well aware that they do. It's what I do for a living.

My point is that these activities require an acceptance that we can't guarantee that someone with a knife won't run onto a football pitch and start stabbing people.

I'm not against securing schools, I'm just saying we can't remove the risk altogether.

Exactly.

The other arguments put forward also ‘well kids are at bigger risk of x, y, z” are so reductive because it really isn’t a case of ‘well we should only focus on the biggest risk and ignore the rest’.

I’m not advocating locking children up to keep them safe from everything but children’s clubs should now add this threat to the already hefty risk assessments that they will have to carry out for H&S and insurance purposes.

Thankfully after Dunblane there didn’t seem to be the attitude of ‘meh these things are so rare so why should we bother doing anything to prevent another?’ or focus so entirely on the problems with the offender and ignore practical ways to keep schools safe. Yes there needs to be better MH support but people will always slip through the cracks.

The perpetrator was born In Cardiff. You are spreading dangerous misinformation.

There are so many things that we need to take away from this case as a society and learn from. Not least, the systemic failures of our mental health services for young people, a conversation around how someone so vulnerable accesses harmful material online, the lack of intervention when someone had been identified as being a risk and (maybe) what additional security should be implemented in settings where children frequent.

Frankly, the bollox you’re spouting doesn’t even form part of the conversation.

The clubs my kids go already have pretty stringent security measures in place, I assume we pay for them as part of the fees.

The security measures that were put in place for my DD made use of the existing physical infrastructure. All it meant is that the sites which were schools and a leisure centre had suitable barriers already and it just needed sufficient adults to man them. It did mean that a minimum of three people including at lease one man had to be on the entrance/exit.

Where do you draw a line with clubs ?
Secure the local football club or public park where the local kids team is playing ?

The rugby club on a Sunday ?

The cricket club in the summer ?

The events in Southport are truly horrific but very rare in UK.

Is that you Mr Trump ?

I don't think anyone (including OP) is suggesting the risk can be altogether removed, but that it should be considered to ensure clubs are 'safer'. Is that unreasonable?

Where do you draw a line with clubs ?
Secure the local football club or public park where the local kids team is playing ?

A risk asssssment and considering the risk is what OP is saying, seems reasonable? Obviously areas that can't be secured you'd hope would still have some sort of plan should something happen.

The club I run is not secure. Without changing venue, it's not possible as it's used by multiple clubs of all ages. Putting security would be tricky and expensive.
Not sure what the answer is, but it's definitely something we discussed as a team.

Private security with armed guards .

How were you right? Nothing would have happened if your child had stayed there. Has anything happened at any club there since that day?

These events are vanishingly rare. More kids get killed by cars every month than by this kind of attack in a decade. Why aren't we doing more to control car drivers?

Security measures are all well and good but I would imagine in most schools anyone buzzing to come in holding a package under their arm would be given entry.

If the door had been locked it would just have happened somewhere else.
You just cant legislate for that kind of act.

Prevention is the ONLY way. Police and security services need better resources to follow up all these leads.

They would because it would be thought to be a delivery.

Schools in the UK are considered targets of terrorism.

There as I've worked in office buildings were you weren't allowed personal deliveries due to the hassle involved in checking them before they gave them to you.

2009 was 16 years ago!

The issues that need addressing are how people become radicalised online and how radicalised people can slip through the net.

Not focusing on locking our children away. If there are people determined to cause these atrocities they will find a way.

I don't want my children growing up terrified without any freedom. Violence like this is incredibly rare.

Nope don't want it. They'll always be a risk but I don't want to be reminded everyday of it. Being hyper vigilant and making kids the same is conducive to anxiety.

The chances are still very minute.

My heart goes out to the Stockport victims and their families.

Don't be so obtuse, I deliberately said what do you do on things like buses? In parks? In swimming pools? The list is endless of places that you can't lock them up in, it's the opposite of being 'that simple'?!

I think everywhere needs round-the-clock security now.

Britain is lawless.

My children’s primary school had a lot of security but there are times when anyone could have walked in, for example when it was the nativity play or school fair and the doors were open with parents queueing. Similarly, anyone can just walk into the leisure centre when there are loads of children there for gymnastics and swimming.

Hmm how would that work with places like forest schools. Where most activities are outside