To think we need to re-think security for children's schools and clubs following Southport

[caffelattetogo]

Before I start, this is absolutely not blaming the victims or anyone who organised the holiday club in Southport. It's easy to be wise after the event.

But, I really think that we need new risk assessments for anywhere that children are, ones that look more at their safety. These monsters target children, so anywhere that children are needs to think about locked doors, video doorbell cameras, extra security measures, anything we can to keep them safer.

Mental health services are struggling and the early warning signs are being missed. We have dangerous people free to plan activities like this, and while we shouldn't need to, I think we need to be aware.

I have thought about this when planning my children's clubs following the attack, and chosen ones with better security measures.

Similarly, I'm concerned about the security at DCs' school and nursery, where doors are often left open.

I know these attacks are rare, but I would feel safer knowing that they were behind locked doors.

AIBU?

I take my granddaughter to a couple of playgroups ( church hall based ) and absolutely anybody could barge their way in. No security whatsoever.

And do you think locking those doors would have stopped him from killing children? Or would have stabbed them at the park? Or soft play? Or pretended to have a package and rung the doorbell?! We can't lock children up forever. They will then become the problem.

The issue is that MH services are dire which is why people don't engage. Or that people fall off the radar and no one chases it up

I can't see how you can make a school fully secure against a determined attacker without turning it into a prison. Our school is secure in the sense that it has a 5/6 foot fence around the perimeter and you have to be "buzzed in" to enter the building, but if someone wanted to scale the fence and attack kids in the playground then of course they could. Not much to be done about it but it's not something that I worry about because the risk of something happening is incredibly low.

No, absolutely. But at others, you could walk in off the street through an open fire door.

I thought after Lockerbie school and kids’ activities generally was much more watertight

Maybe we need to look at the fact that something, or somethings are going seriously wrong in society and maybe we should try and work out what, and if it is possible to backtrack

True, but there are gatherings of children in hundreds of places with zero security at all because it's just not practical or even desirable. Parks, football games, swimming pools, libraries - if someone wants to inflict random violence on a group of children there is no shortage of opportunities.

My girls primary school is locked during school hours, but the gates are opened from 3pm - 6pm for wrap around care. I've always felt a little uncomfortable about this.

My girls also go to a dance school on a saturday morning. When the southport attacks first happened the doors were locked once the kids were inside, but I've noticed that this has now started to slip and it's rarely locked. There is a security gate which is only accessed by pin code but an attacker could easily just follow a load of parents through at the same time.

I can stomach most things that I read, however horrific, but I cannot read this story. It is just too horrific

Absolutely, and prevention is vital, but takes time - keeping doors locked (and having secure doors in the first place) would be a step we can do now.

do you mean Dunblane?

Kids don't need to be in prisons, there's enough anxiety about already.

Exactly . And parents thunder along the roads outside schools like they are oblivious to the fact they are driving giant killing machines

Gosh yes. I’m so sorry - this was a really bad fail on my part. I really didn’t mean to cause potential offence ❤️

Surely if someone has ill intent towards others, how can you prevent that entirely....unless the entire population is going to be accompanied by armed guards at all times... every time you step out of your house, there's a chance of something dreadful happening

Schools do take safeguarding children very seriously with very regular checks of policy, procedure and risk assessment by governors, LA officers ( if not in a trust) and leaders. This includes site security, assessment of identified risk and patterns and actions to address identified changes.

The curriculum also helps children to be safe. The most sensible primary age pupil that I asked...

‘do you feel safe at school?’ and ‘how does school keep you safe?’ answered

‘I do feel safe at school, but no-one, including school can keep me safe all of the time, I need to learn to do that too’.

I think that your school and nursery are very unusual to leave doors open. My experience has been the opposite - there’s a door that easily opens to Reception but the rest of the school is closed to people without a door pass which is fair enough.

The problem with relying on technology too much is that kids don’t learn to develop “street smarts” and instincts when things aren’t right. I’m obviously talking about the older end of primary school here but before they are travelling to secondary on their own, they need to have developed some sense. For example the light might be green for pedestrians but they shouldn’t cross if there’s a car that looks like it’s not slowing down. If a dog owner isn’t paying attention or seemingly struggling to control their dog then they might want to cross the road etc

Unfortunately you can’t reduce the risk to zero and being over zealous could result in an anxious kid who ends up with no independence skills. I’m not saying that you shouldn’t consider safety at all but make sure your fears don’t overshadow the joys of living and the fact that one day your kids will want some freedom and need to be ready.

Good clubs already do this. I don't let my children attend clubs where this isn't the case.

I live near Southport and a few places we go to improved their security very quickly (very upsetting that it was needed) - a main door that can only be opened from the inside. I presumed most primary schools already did have the doors locked...

In an ideal world, yes. But in an ideal world, we would all be safe and it wouldn't be a topic.

In reality - who would pay for it?

There needs to be consideration for how easy it is to get out of a building for a child, as well, for example in case of fire. Locking out threats from the outside is all well and good, but it's sadly not as if a child is safe just because they're in a locked building, even if they are with adults. An adult in charge could have a health crisis, or, scarily, could be nefarious themselves.

No, schools should already have safeguards in place although there is only so much they can do without turning them into prison type buildings,

I think of the activities my children attend it would be impossible, sports on an playing field for example, how would you secure that? Scout camps? Churches? Then just every day things like going to the park or a soft play centre or a bus at school times? Visiting the zoo or museums,

It's not always possible. My kids attend a holiday club at the leisure centre which is impossible to keep fully secure. You can't get in unless you either have a members card or are dropping off/picking your kids up but it would be very easy to get round it if you were determined enough.

I fully agree with keeping primary schools and nurseries locked at all times but that's mainly from an escape point of view.

There are too many areas in life where it's easy to target people individually/in groups. Young teenagers are getting stabbed on the bus, you can't avoid that but what we need to try and fix is the reason why it's happening.

Keeping children isolated isn't going to help as they grow up.

It's hard, it's really hard. Mine are 7 and 9, approaching 8 and 10 and I need to start letting go and giving them age appropriate independence and it's something we are working on. There are so many dangers in the world and we can't prevent them all.

What will you do when they are older and out and about by themselves? At the gym for example?

I think our society would be better served using the money you want for extra school security on improving mental health services. The Southport killer had long term MH challenges, perhaps with better services this could have been prevented.

I have a child with mental health struggles. There is literally no fucking help. I will do my best but I'm not a psychotherapist. He can't attend school due o his behaviour so he can't get outside help there. There are no services from children's mental health to support him. He's already violent but no one blames him because he's such a small child- but he won't be a small child forever. I've joined a lot of support groups for parents of children out of school. Sooooo many of them have serious behavioural difficulties often violence and the parent and child are begging for help but there is none. It's a HUGE problem but instead of getting worried for the future or demeaning our governments provide mental health help to stop these kids growing into violent adults the public bats for the blood of those who snap and kill.

Killing is always wrong the Southport guy is evil. But we have to acknowledge he was a victim too and may not have turned out how he did if the services were there to intervene

Haha. Some, possibly, do. Many don’t.