To think we need to re-think security for children's schools and clubs following Southport

[caffelattetogo]

Before I start, this is absolutely not blaming the victims or anyone who organised the holiday club in Southport. It's easy to be wise after the event.

But, I really think that we need new risk assessments for anywhere that children are, ones that look more at their safety. These monsters target children, so anywhere that children are needs to think about locked doors, video doorbell cameras, extra security measures, anything we can to keep them safer.

Mental health services are struggling and the early warning signs are being missed. We have dangerous people free to plan activities like this, and while we shouldn't need to, I think we need to be aware.

I have thought about this when planning my children's clubs following the attack, and chosen ones with better security measures.

Similarly, I'm concerned about the security at DCs' school and nursery, where doors are often left open.

I know these attacks are rare, but I would feel safer knowing that they were behind locked doors.

AIBU?

Agree with this, highly unusual for a school to be 'open'. The only building the public could potentially at DS' enter is main reception which is segregated from the rest of the school and has measures in place to control entry; the rest is securely fenced and locked at all times. Same with clubs here, exterior doors only left open in summer where premises are secured externally too.

I pulled my child out of a summer holiday club last year after I was shocked at the security. It was a pain to arrange other childcare at the last minute but anyone could have walked in (this was before the Southport horrors) and caused a similar massacre. Also anyone could have gone in and taken a child and the staff really wouldn't have noticed.

When I signed her out I noticed on the register they hadn't completed the break snd lunch time registers either so they could have had no idea who was or wasn't in the room. I did complain to the leisure centre that evening and I have still had no response so I was right to pull her out.

I think schools are mostly secure, but holiday clubs etc.... really need to up the security.

I think we would be much wiser to think about the internet and how these people, sometimes with their own issues, use it to feed an intense obsession with violence. Im thinking also of the terrible gun attack in Plymouth - the killer had a history of obsessive use of dark online material.

20 years ago it was more difficult to become intense and obsessed and isolated like this.

Yes to better mental health interventions and also to addressing what teens can access on the internet.

The 15 year old girl who killed Brianna Ghey had also been obsessed with murder and had accessed the dark web. Brianna's mum is campaigning for better control of what young people are accessing online.

Thing is, anyone could claim to be a prospective parent of a nursery or school and get access.

This is horrific but I don’t think anything could have been done differently.

However, although there are things we can do better, random murders by people with mental health issues (thankfully rare) will never be able to be 100% prevented.

We can't really lock up loads of people who have committed no crime, even if they have worrying obsessions or search histories. I agree we could do more to intervene in these cases though.

As others have said, it all changed post Dunblane. Your child’s nursery should not have doors that are left open. They’d be shut down by Ofsted if that were the case.

It's escaped your notice that the Southport murderer was British, hasn't it? You also haven't noticed that Wayne Couzens is British, as is Kyle Clifford. We grow plenty of our own murderers here.

Thankfully these tragedies are incredibly rare
so no I wouldn’t support that. Not at all.

Yes we can it's that simple keep kids locked up for the duration of a club then when parents come doors get unlocked. Or would you rather do nothing ?

Similarly, I'm concerned about the security at DCs' school and nursery, where doors are often left open.

That sounds unusual.

At my DD's nursery, the main door is locked and accessed by a doorbell or a parent with fingerprint access. There is no access to the back garden from the front.

And my other DD's school, the main gate is locked and can only be opened by buzzing in. The gate to the playground is locked (only opened at pick up/drop off) so once through the main gate you cannot access anything other than the reception (as in the office, not reception class) which again you need to be buzzed in to.

It's a definite contrast to the Rainbows my DD attends, which is in a church hall and I think anyone could walk in during the sessions. Physically locking the church hall doors would probably be a risk in a fire, which needs to be balanced against the risk of someone coming in through unlocked doors I guess.

It’s not that simple. You would end up with a generation of kids riddled with anxiety and terrified to leave the house because of their paranoid parents.

A life is no life at all if you’re too scared to live it.

Absolutely, no haha about it! What a strange comment.

If you know of schools that don't safeguard children you need to report your evidence to governors/LA and the local safeguarding board.

In my LA there are significant checks and very high expectations that children are safeguarded.

My kids go to clubs where the doors are locked. They have no idea that the doors are locked, why would they? I can’t see how something they know nothing about is going to cause them anxiety.

The difficulty with this is that groups children also need to be able to evacuate safely in the event of an emergency.

Schools can be equipped with electronic locks that automatically release when an alarm triggers. It's harder when the doors are manually locked.

More checks, controls and education for children, young people and parents around the dangers of the internet. It is mind blowing the information out there and the warping of children/young people and adult minds that takes place.

This should be the focus more than limiting the activity of our children and locking them inside buildings!

Stop using the tragic death of three young girls to spread your misinformation.

The murderer was a British Christian.

Your misinformation is the same as that which created the riots.

What's the point in being terrified.
Instead look around the world see where the lowest crime races and see how advantage achieve that. I believe Norway has the lowest reoffending rate and has some of the most progressive rehabilitation and soft prisons.
You're never going to get rid of all the dangers but you can minimize the risk.
Be far more effective to put stringent controls on the internet, do a lot more work with emotional regulation in schools and much better parenting classes. Countries with really high murder rates particularly in schools have aggressive penal systems but don't work to rehabilitate.
Look at the US their schools are like fortresses and yet the number one cause of death in young people is murder. Their prison system is overflowing aggressive and has nothing to do with reform.
The Stockport killer should have been given intensive ongoing therapy at a very young age and monitored far more closely. If he haven't attacked those poor children class at a class he would have done it in a supermarket or at a concert or at a sporting event or a train or .....

100% this!!

I believe Norway has the lowest reoffending rate and has some of the most progressive rehabilitation and soft prisons.

And Norway also had Anders Breivik.

YABU

There must be something going on in London or an alert before that time as every club my DD went to from May half term of that year had increased their security. She went to a different club every week over the summer holidays and you could only pick her up from the gates.

In fact the most dangerous things she has gone to are other kids parties where as long as you say you are a parent looking for your kid, if you don't accompany your child in, are you allowed in.

My school has a wall with a metal fence surrounding it. The gates are locked during the day, monitored with cameras and an electronic key code entrance. The external doors are locked from the outside, though opened in the inside with a push button or emergency exit bar. Most do have glass, though this is reinforced glass.

We can't really do any more. It's been like this for many years.

Though if someone was really determined they could simply enter the grounds at the start of the day or end of the day, when the gates are unlocked.

I've been saying this for the last few years.

Mumsnet HQ even gave me a prize for putting that in a question to ask a politician 2.5 years ago.

Many parents don't understand that online box in the corner of their living room , your child's bedroom or in your child's pocket is dangerous. For example you wouldn't take your child to a brothel or an orgy but you allow them to see the same stuff (and worse) in their own home.

The school I work in definitely isn’t secure. The gates to the car park are always open due to deliveries and visitors etc and there is a 4ft metal fence around the perimeter of the yard which even I could jump over despite having arthritis. The kids spend half the day in this yard and outdoor work just outside the classrooms. Anyone could hurt them if they wanted to despite there being keypad entry to the main building. Honestly anyone could get in.