to feel like we were scammed into going to University?

[Schleep]

When I was at school (completed sixth form 2009), if you were academic it was assumed that you'd go to University. The whole thing was pushed incredibly hard on us and, in retrospect, was quite propaganda-like - we had external people come and do loads of assemblies on how amazing Uni Life was, lots and lots of talk about how University would guarantee us high paying jobs and we were repeatedly told to not worry about the debt, the interest rate is practically zero and we'd never even realise the money was coming out.
(Of course, when you're in your teens, debt looks like free money anyway)

Fast forward 10, 15 years later - and all my friends are saddled with huge debts that they'll likely be paying off for the rest of their lives.
A lot of them have had their repayment contracts changed so its no longer written off after a certain time, the payment terms are not as favourable and interest rates have gone up.

I dodged a bullet by being rebellious and dropping out after just 1 term, and that term was just before the fees tripled (at the time, you'd have thought I was ruining my life the way the University/everyone responded.) and I feel incredibly lucky. A degree would not have increased my employability and I have no student debt.
But I have friends and family genuinely upset at the hundreds they're forking out each month for something they didn't want and (at least in their cases) they simply do not use.

I find it baffling that the system was funnelling people out of the workforce, into unnecessary (in many cases) education and saddling people with huge amounts of debt.

The good news is you are so loaded up with debt you can't be loaded up with more to buy a massively overpriced shoebox.

Probably time to bail out !

@SharpOpalNewt can I ask why you would scrap GCSEs? not that I disagree with you, having taught GCSE subjects I am inclined to agree with you but cannot articulate why. Except to say they're far too much stress on young children whose brains are still developing. And all for what?

100% agree. My 2 DC (now late 20s) went to Uni, and both did well, and are in good jobs now that I don't think they would be in without their degree. But it still freaks me out that they owe around £40,000. They seem quite nonchalant about it, but I don't like it.

And yeah, they (and I) know many people (as well as my 2 DC,) who were pushed and coerced into going to Uni, and the school said they HAVE to go as it would be a sin to not send them, as they are 'academically very bright.' They were pushed and pushed, but fortunately have come out of it OK, and are in very good/well paid careers...

But some pupils were pushed into going and really struggled at Uni, and got poor results in their degree, or dropped out part way in. They weren't dim or thick at all, they just struggled with degree level education and should never have gone to Uni.

Some got an OK result in their degree, but are in a job next to people who have 1 to 3 GSCEs, all shit grades, and no A levels. (Or very poor ones, like Ds and Es.) These 'exam fail' people are on a similar salary too.

I know loads of people who didn't go to Uni who are doing very well, either in white collar work, or a blue collar profession, and they are on much more money than some people who went to Uni.

So yeah, many people should not have gone to Uni, and a lot of people were conned/coerced/bullied into going. The amount of people going should be much less. Maybe 1 in 10 like it used to be.

I am glad I went, I'm a bit older than you so didn't come out of university with a huge debt, luckily for me. My degree though lead straight into a reasonably well paid job, a job I couldn't do without a degree and I still work in the same field and it gave me a career that has allowed to have time out when the kids are young and to rejoin the workforce when it suited me. I am not a massive highflyer, but I earn an above the national average salary, enough to make the make the degree worth doing even with the current amount for tuition fees.

I checked my student loan account a few months ago and my debt was 5k higher than it was a few years ago despite the fact I’ve been paying it each month LOL

Well yeah. I mean going to Uni at 18 can make people learn to be more sociable and independent to a degree, and many people who are Uni at 18-19 will have learned more about living independently and being self sufficient than someone still lives with mum and dad. But as you say, these skills will come eventually with most young adults. You don't have to force yourself to stay at Uni for 3 years, and get yourself £50K or more in debt to 'do adulting!'

Sounds like my 2 DC @TeamGeriatric and I'm glad things worked out for you too. As I said, my 2 are in good, well-paid careers that I believe would have been difficult to get into if they had not gone to Uni. As the OP and some others have said, it's not like that for many though, and there are lots of people who should never have gone to Uni, and should not have been pressured into it.

but lots of young people don't leave home until their late twenties or even thirties, that's a long time to wait to grow up!

I don't agree with the armchair psychologists saying you are trying to justify your decision - it sounds like the right decision for you, but you must see you are being unreasonable to say "we", if "we" represents literally everyone who has ever gone to university, or even just your cohort of people of a similar age (including myself in that).

While you have family and friends that you say do not use their degrees, surely you must also know people that did use them? So obviously they weren't scammed into going to uni. It was the right choice for some people, but not for everyone.

I completely agree that careers advisers over encouraged uni and that the figures they gave then about how much a degree would improve your earning power etc are now inaccurate (the best off people I know are the ones who left school at 16 and did trades apprenticeships!), but they were dealing with the facts they had at the time - at that point when they were talking about 'over the course of your career' they were talking about people who had been to uni in the 60s/70s, who were a much tinier proportion of the population.

Also agree with people being pushed to do 'a degree, any degree.' I did eng lit in a RG uni, which was in the top 10 in the UK at the time, and there were people on my course who said 'I never read for fun,' refused to do any Shakespeare, etc. Seriously, why choose that degree?

I also think that the grading system in uni is completely ridiculous. How can any mark between 70-100 be a first, but only ten points (60-70) for a 2.1, yet such a big majority get a 2.1? How are you supposed to differentiate between someone who barely scraped with a 60 and who worked their butt off for 3 years, and produced amazing work but had one bad exam which dragged them down to a 69.5?

The original intention was to keep youth unemployment down - nothing to do with young people getting an education and a better job.

I also think that the grading system in uni is completely ridiculous. How can any mark between 70-100 be a first, but only ten points (60-70) for a 2.1, yet such a big majority get a 2.1? How are you supposed to differentiate between someone who barely scraped with a 60 and who worked their butt off for 3 years, and produced amazing work but had one bad exam which dragged them down to a 69.5?

I agree the marking system is odd.

also in relation to the 'growing up' element - uni is often several stepping stones, which is an easier transition than a sudden child-adult.

e.g. first year most people live in halls - so everything is organised by the uni, you don't have to do multiple house viewings, put down a deposit or set up separate utility bills etc. While you might be away from home there is usually safeguarding and welfare staff around to help, and often cleaners etc as well. If something breaks the uni will fix it.

then second and third year most people live with friends - another step again, but still not entirely independent, the uni sometimes helps with housing, you are with a group of people so not doing it by yourself, fewer bills (e.g. don't have to pay council tax) etc. Often parents had to countersign the rent. You were in a city you knew fairly well after living there for a year. Plus most people still have a home to go back to in the holidays.

Whereas for the people I know that didn't go to uni, going straight from parents house to their first independent place a) didn't happen until much later than 18, and b) was a huge shock. Going from having everything provided for you to suddenly having to sort EVERYTHING yourself with no prior experience was a big leap. If they moved away to a new area, it was even harder.

Besides which most people were either on their own (again living alone for the first time ever), or with a partner, which again is a huge culture shock if you've never lived with anyone other than your family before, and you're suddenly navigating the change in your relationship on top of everything else.

So not saying you can't "grow up" (whatever that means) without going to uni, but it could be much later, and often harder.

I do think now it is more going back to people going if they actually need a degree rather than just to do any course they want.

Neither of my DCs went to uni, one is in the arts, he's 18 and earning £35k a year already, the other is 16 and earning £23k doing a L2 apprenticeship. The 18 yo has a more volatile career as it stands but has saved a house deposit so now needs to sort pension etc to ensure he has stability. The other is in a very stable role with lots of opportunities. A degree would not have enhanced their opportunities in anyway, they would have missed years of earning and got them in debt, plus they would be behind in their careers.

Which L2 apprenticeship is paying £23k a year. I have a 16 yo with absolutely no idea what he wants to do with his life.

I'll PM you

I’m also gen X (late), but my mother is the Silent Generation. She’s a physicist, worked most of her career in R&D and industrial applications, I remember playing with parts of her equipment when I was little, she took me to work sometimes when I was sick and it wasn’t frowned upon. I am sure it was harder for women to break through though but not impossible. She’s never been Marie Curie, but she also didn’t have to face the same prejudice as MC did.

Sir Anthony Charles Lynton Blair...thanks for that...

I left school in 1974. One girl in my cohort went to uni the rest into jobs. I had a career in which you would have to have a degree to get an interview now.
My DC are in their 20s. Both did STEM degrees and have huge student loans. Neither really uses their degree. DC2 works in a completely different field but he did get there via a grad scheme (and he still complains that no employer has ever asked to see his shiney first certificate).

In some countries it is a lot more common to stay at home whilst doing your degree and work part time. It does limit you to your local uni (if you have one) but it cuts down the cost.

YANBU certain jobs you definitely need a uni degree but there are plenty of well paying jobs out there that don’t need any kind of degree.

I actually find the opposite. Those who I get as 16 yo apprentices are way more mature by 20 than those who have been to uni. They have a better work ethic, call in sick less and don't have an entitled attitude. I appreciate that is a huge generalisation but being in the workplace at 16 or 18 is what makes people grow up. A huge number of Uni students are funded by their parents, they don't even have a part time job.

I often find my graduates expect more money and more glamorous jobs when they have literally no experience of the job.

I went to uni when it was a lot cheaper. Never had a job that needed a degree, buy on balance I think I came out of it better than if I hadn't gone. It did more teaching me to think, which hadn't happened with school rote learning.

I would not encourage my kids to go to university, unless it was an obvious career path. The one that is into computing will be more likely to need a degree to get a job so that makes more sense. The one that likes plants would be much better off trying for an apprenticeship at 16. The amount of fees these days are eye-watering, so really not something to sign up to without a clear path to earnings. Which is a shame really.

I think it depends on the degree, if you have a degree in a Stem subject then having a degree opens a lot of doors that would otherwise be closed to you. Obviously plenty of science and medical jobs where a degree specialism is essential.

I'm a science graduate and although you don't need a degree to do the job I do in the Environment Agency, most of the workforce here has a degree or equivalent.

Or are on a train prepping like some of us. Apologies for popping on here for a break.

I'm very glad I went. I did a humanities subject and read lots of things that shaped the way I understand the world. Writing essays and doing secondary reading also equips you to assess arguments critically, a skill I use every day in both work and the rest of my life.