To wonder if Starmer can survive the vibe-shift?

[User09678]

Trump has been going hell for leather since his inauguration it seems, things are changing fast - Trump likes the UK, but he doesn't like Starmer. Starmer seems out of sync with the changing tide, and seems (to me) to get it wrong and make it worse everytime he opens his mouth. AIBU in wondering how long Starmer can hang on?

Nobody sensible thinks Labour's mistakes are the fault of the right wing media. It's about how the mistakes are reported in comparison with the mistakes of the Conservatives, how energetically the journalists dig for dirt, how much space is allocated to stories, choice of photography.

He may not be perfect, but he's not a bullyboy fascist/fascist sympathizer (and I don't use those terms lightly). "Vibe shift" makes what's happening in the US sound far more benign than it is,.

But Biden hated us so wasn't any better.

The issue Starmer has is that he does not connect with the public. Blair did, Corbyn had a large cult like following. So whatever he says, and this isn’t helping with the right wing media but that is always the case for Labour, is that he doesn’t connect with people. Also hasn’t helped that he has taken the stance of I have to make hard decisions and there are no negotiations

Starmer is intelligent, a strong leader as seen by his purge of the left of the party. certainly capable of dealing with international negotiations at a high level but he just isn’t good at the game of politics. It isn’t just about charisms it’s about being able to play with words. Sometimes he is just to honest and when he isn’t being so upfront he ain’t in anyway apologising for back tracking (Blair was very good at this)

many of his supporters (myself included though disappointed with some decisions he has made) will say personality doesn’t matter but in politics especially in the world of so much reporting it does

Unless there is sudden turn in the economy and his popularity I think there is likely to be a leadership challenge. Having a huge majority is great to get things through parliament but a headache to manage. I think it’s likely to be Angela Rayner (she had been pushed to the sidelines) or Wes Streeting who is certainly working on his leadership qualities

'Vibe shift' makes the slide towards a fascist dictatorship sound fun and funky.

Obviously because his policies can affect our economically and socially.

Of course he has. Perhaps not directly, but indirectly he could make life very difficult for Starmer and therefore the UK.

@HRTQueen I disagree, there won't be a leadership challenge anytime soon unless something really catastrophic happens. But Labour needs to work on its comms and fast.

As for Wes Streeting...there is something off about him IMHO. I don't think he will ever be leader.

I agree - he lacks political conviction in a way that Blair and Corbyn did not - someone who clearly relies more on polls and advisors than his own instincts. It could be argued that pragmatism is a good quality but it does make him a slightly unconvincing leader. I'd take him over the bluster and vanity and downright idiocy of Trump - or Farage - any day though. I don't think there will be a leadership challenge as he's clearly a lot tougher than he seems. Watching America, I'm thanking my lucky stars we're not stuck with the sort of leader who'd burn the whole world if he could be king of the ashes.

starmer is a vile prick

OK Nigel.

And your reasoning for this?

Who in the Labour party do you think Trump would prefer?

What makes you think capitalism is going to collapse? Its easier to imagine the end of the world

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/24513379.sellafield-worker-jailed-sharing-offensive-facebook-posts/

Its called an opinion love

Were there similar threads like this pre May 2024? I'm genuinely interested as I can't remember if they were or won't. I remember political threads but the way these OPs are worded always seems weird and impersonal to me.

But OK I'll bite. No. I think the UK is basically a centrist country. I think most politicians are by default very unpopular at the moment due to wider economic factors. I think Trump will go the same way when he can't perform economic miracles. I think most British people are reasonable centerists who are not fans of Trump or Musk or right wing conspiracies in general. I also think five years is a bloody long time in politics and the world and by the time we have another election Trump will be out of office anyway.

Streeting will fare better with the electorate for numerous reasons than Rayner.

Streeting has been decisive on some key issues which are playing out - his foresight will serve him well. He's reading the room when others have not. Rayner has a massive PR problem I don't know how she solves. I would struggle to vote for her.

That said I don't think Starmer will go anywhere fast. Labour are aware of how badly multiple Tory leadership battles went down badly with the public.

I'm no fan of Starmer and have been vocally so. He's walked into a number of avoidable traps. He was handed a poisoned chalice though from where it would be very difficult for any leader to dig themselves out of. And he has all the charisma of a mosquito.

What matters most with Starmer is the quality of the advice he's getting. If he listens to Streeting he might do ok...

...so yeah my head is at what would Streeting do and just how much rivalry there is between him and Starmer. Will they put themselves first or put aside that rivalry?

It'll go one of two ways. We'll be firmly sucked in OR be that bloody fed up of hearing about all the bloody drama in the US we'll do a total rejection of it, just to spite them.

I’m not sure Trump would prefer anyone I don’t think he would care that much beyond the UK having a right wing party in power

Interesting choice Lord Peter Mandelson as US ambassador, great political mover but he may just have ruffled too many feathers or he could be the answer to what Starmer needs to work with Trump

It’s all very well saying Trump is stupid fool but he matters very much to the world and the state of international politics at present (maybe not as much as it once did) and particularly to us post Brexit as all US presidents do

I think there's a tough time ahead. Many voted for Starmer because they were fed up with the Conservative government rather than for a big shift to the left.

It will be difficult for labour if standards of living improve in the US under Trump and his 'look to now not the future ' policies (eg drilling for oil and gas).

V likely though that Trump will overreach. A ban in EDI work in government will hurt more vulnerable groups (people with disabilities; carers etc) and could exclude more from the workforce. Broad social democratic policies could then become more popular and labour could end up riding the next wave

I think the vast majority of people are just not following the day to day stuff across the Atlantic. If they do they just think it's pretty bonkers.