To feel everyone is anti trans?

[Kitjo]

I'm well aware of current US views led by Trump - but are these views generally held/supported in the UK? Of course I understand opinions on NHS gender reassignment funding, as well as controversies over trans women in sport. Needless to say I'm fully aware of concerns over women's safety issues. Are there any sympathisers or supporters out there? What about trans masculine folk who are surely no threat to women's safety or sport? None of these people would choose such a hard life, socially, financially, physically, mentally, emotionally... am I alone in thinking a bit of kindness and compassion towards the trans community might be appreciated for the massive personal struggles they have to face? I am open minded to hearing and understanding your views.

The main problem is that the trans agenda demands things that impacts people's lives without giving any respect or kindness in return.

There is no respect or kindness towards women who need single sex spaces for a whole variety of reasons and who don't want to be unconsenting participants in a fetish - some men who've transitioned have been very open about the fact it gives them a sexual thrill. And it's fairly obvious too if you dare to look at their multiple posts online of them in the women's toilets (I don't recommend it).

Mumsnet is very comfortable with rightwing transphobia.

Exactly this. What a brilliant post❤️.

And women just want to live their lives feeling comfortable. For many, often women who have been abused, that means no transwomen in female single-sex spaces. I think that's fair, no?

How common is this really?? Are there really 'lots' of trans people going round threatening to rape women for not letting them use the women's toilet? Would love to hear the evidence of this 🙄

IDK just seems like hysteria to me. Bigger issues in the world and all that. How about all the hetero men who actually rape women.

A biased 'study' with a pre-determined outcome. Just LISTEN to women and girls, girls avoid going to school when they have their periods because there are no safe female only toilets. Women refrain from fluids during the day so they won't have to use the mixed sex toilet at work. Girls are withdrawing from sport because males are dominating.

You truly are deeply in denial and in an echo chamber if you genuinely believe turning female only spaces mixed sex is not having an affect on women and girls.

My issue is that it’s become a kind of cult that people get drawn into. Sadly some ND people come to believe they are trans but for some it’s probably more about finding it hard to fit in as they are.

I wish the NHS and accredited counsellors wouldn’t just affirm the notion that the person in front of them is trans. Far more needs to be done to understand what is going on with that person.

Clearly you can never actually change what chromosomes you are born with.

• I can see there are some scared and hurt people

How patronising. No, women just have boundaries. Mumsnet is strongly female oriented, but representative of the majority view that female spaces should be female only.

Evidence?

This is the point. They ARE harming others. By TW entering spaces, events etc meant for women. By compelling speech and use of wrong sex pronouns under fear of being labelled a bigot or losing a job. I do think that’s harmful. Don’t you?

How common is this really?? Are there really 'lots' of trans people going round threatening to rape women for not letting them use the women's toilet? Would love to hear the evidence of this

Oh boy. Go on Twitter, Reddit etc.

"Nobody would choose such a hard life." Well, you might think no trans person would choose to compete in sport if people are going to hate them for it, but they still do. I think it's abundantly obvious why a man sent to prison might choose to identify as a woman, especially if that man happens to be sexually violent.

And in certain contexts choosing to be trans is actually choosing an easier life, or at least promises to be. Why be the lonely autistic kid at uni who nobody talks to when you can be a stunning and brave trans person everyone's falling over themselves to celebrate?

I'm a university lecturer and I care about the young women I teach who think things will be better if they are non-binary or men.
Except they are still women. Women who may be damaged physically by surgeries or hormones.
They are still seen as women, still prejudiced against as women, still able to be raped or assaulted, still won't win sports against men, and it's deeply sexist to think "because I don't have the same thoughts and preferences as other women therefore I'm not a woman", so it's regressive for the rest of us.

I'm also not that happy about young men who go about in their fetish gear on campus, and who wouldn't be allowed to do that if they were into some other paraphilia. And I'm unhappy that the feminine young gay men are also pushed into the "don't like macho things so can't be a man" box.

And I don't think we can counsel the students whose father has decided he's a woman if we aren't allowed to say we sometimes disagree with transition, even by an adult, and that gaslighting your children even if they are also adults, is wrong. My own family tried to do this to me when I was a student (not over trans issues, over something else) and it took a very good counsellor to help me to see that I could own my childhood memories even if my family said I was wrong.

What does this word salad even mean?

What rights are being taken away from trans people? Please list them on the basis of the arguments posted here.

You find it uncomfortable that people can call themselves a woman without those experiences. This is an interesting line of thought because I think this actually harms cis women. What about women who choose not to or can't have children so don't experience pregnancy or those who choose not to or can't breastfeed? Some may have a medical condition meaning they don't have a uterus or they don't menstruate and therefore won't experience menopause.

When we try to define womanhood in order to exclude trans women, we also exclude other women in the process. So I don't believe that this protects women in any way. I think trans people are even more vulnerable than women and the patriarchy harms us all. Let's work together against that instead of being divided.

A quick look on Twitter or Terfisaslur will show you how very common it is sadly.
Yes, it's hetero men who rape women overwhelmingly, but you know what? A lot of transwomen are heterosexual men!

I think protecting women's hard won rights, such as they are, is a big issue actually.

Unfortunately, people’s understanding has been pushed too far and taken advantage of. When o was young, you were aware of a few blokes who liked to wear women’s clothes and “live as women” you might even have come across one who had had surgery - most people just shrugged (although as in any situation where someone is “different” there was some people who voiced their dislike).

But over the last decade we have had people screeching at us that we are terrible people (and threatening violence inc murder and rape) unless we subscribed to the following:

1. There is no definition of “woman” therefore every single right women (aka adult female humans) have fought and died for is irrelevant
2. Women weren’t allowed to be referred to as women- they were “birth givers” “chest feeders” “menstruaters” we have been systematically dehumanised in order to facilitate men’s wishes
3. We have had careers destroyed, ostracised for using actual English definitions and biological reality
4. We have had careers destroyed and been ostracised for wanting to maintain our dignity and safety
5. We have had to live in other peoples fake realities in order to avoid suffering financially and socially
6. we have risked losing our kids if we tried to stop mental and physical harm being forced on them
7. We have seen women who strived for years, whose parents gave all to get them to the top of their sport to see a mediocre man swoop in and steal their rewards as he had been through male puberty - if you said anything again you risked losing everything.
8. if you were attracted to women you risked losing everything if you refused to have sex with someone who had or did have a penis - people suddenly thought coercing people into having sex was fine.
9. women are being told they must strip naked next to random naked males or risk losing the access of gyms etc

The people enforcing the above are the real enemies of the people who “feel they’re living in the wrong body” they are the ones stirring hatred and preventing people from getting appropriate help. So if you want to find the real enemies of trans people, look to those enforcing the above. Because many women just aren’t going to take this anymore and many men are backing us up.

So how many threats of rape are acceptable then? 1? Less than 10?

How about all the hetero men who actually rape women.

Many "trans women" are "hetero men", and they pose the same risk to women that any other man does.

You're totally uninformed about any of this, aren't you?

are there really lots of men threatening to beat up trans women who use the male loos? Would love to hear evidence of this. I think most men just go to the loo to pee and leave. I don’t think they would give too hoots if a trans women was in there with them.

What transphobia have you seen? Because genuine transphobia should be reported and deleted. Saying a person isn’t the opposite sex of their birth isn’t transphobic.

This doesn't really apply to the situation here however.

What rights do you feel transpeople no not have or will be taken away?

What about women's rights to single sex spaces? These are clearly at risk if we allow men to access these spaces on the grounds of gender.

The 'pie' analogy doesn't aid understanding here. But women's rights are clearly under threat if gender identity is prioritised.

If by "trans masculine folk" you mean women abusing testosterone to resemble men, then no, I don't think it's fair for them to compete in women's sports. It's doping. And there is a potential threat to safety, if it's a contact sport.

People have the right to body autonomy and to live how they choose if not harming others. ‘Rights’ are not a pie, giving someone else a slice does not take away from yours.

This is just a load of fatuous buzzwords. If I, a woman, need a female space, one man in it takes the whole pie.

They are harming women's rights. So they fall at your first hurdle.

Why is threatening to rape someone the bar for not wanting men in women’s spaces? What about if they just don’t want them there? What about if they’ve experienced sexual assault and just want to be in a space free of a biological male?

Why do women’s feelings take second place to those of a trans person’s? Why is the need to validate theirs more important?