To continue calling DD by the name I gave her

[bannsise]

My DD is 22, her first name is Isabella, I chose the name as I love it and think it’s very pretty. Since she was little I’d always call her Isabella or Bella, her dad who I wasn’t with called her “Isa” (ee-sa).
As a teen she insisted I didn’t call her Bella, I happily just used Isabella.
Now she is insisting I call her Isa, she says she doesn’t like Isabella, no one apart from me has called her it in 10+ years. She also complains I say it wrong anyway (her dad is European and pronounces it ee-sa-bell-a, I say is-a-bell-a). I replied that I can’t say her name wrong as I picked it!!

AIBU to say I will continue to call her Isabella (with the English pronunciation) and not by Isa as that isn’t the name I chose for her and I don’t like it.

I totally agree. The OP does not own her DD, nor her DDs name. She may have chosen it, but that's where her rights stop.

My DD has a name that can be shortened, but I knew the chances of her using a shorter version were high- and not really my business.

I am not overly fond of my DDs shorter version- eg Becky from Rebecca ( not her actual name), but I totally accept it and use it because that is what she prefers- and I would never let my preferences trump her usage, or even tell her.

A mother daughter bond can be an amazing thing, far more important than a silly squabble about names.

I'm not sure this is the hill to die on @bannsise

You left her when she was 16 and moved country...I'm not sure you have any right to demand your adult dd uses the name you want.

Sounds more like retaliation at her dad for his treatment of you, but you need to separate the two.

You need to actually hear what your dd is saying to you and heed it or you risk doing irrevocable damage to your relationship.

It would depend what language we're speaking. The French way when speaking French, and the English way when speaking English, because that's how that name is pronounced in those languages.

But anyway, I just cannot get my head around the idea that a mother pronouncing her own child's name, that she chose, the way it is normally pronounced in her own language is "wrong". (Presumably OP speaks to her daughter in English). It's just not comparable to meeting a foreigner and refusing to pronounce their name the way they ask you to.

Obviously, ultimately it's the daughter's choice, but it is a very unusual choice, given that the vast majority of people with foreign parents are quite happy for their parents to use their own pronunciation of their names, even if it's different from how everyone else in the country they now live in says their name, and it definitely smacks of some level of rejection of her mother's influence/culture/language, which I can see why it would be hurtful to the OP.

Oh, I didn't mean there isn't racism in the UK. Not at all, and far from it. But America is on another level, with racism until recently enshrined in law and society organised around state-sanctioned racism. And such a legacy means that, unofficially, society is still organised that way. Segregation is in living memory. Black people experienced horrendous housing discrimination until the Fair Housing Act of 1968, and thereafter still, which is why there's not the intergenerational wealth being transferred today like there is between white folk. Schools are funded by local property taxes, not by money allocated to a local council from a central government. Black people tend to get paid less, so they live in lower-income areas, which have fewer funds because property taxes are lower in those areas and there are small houses on which not as much tax is due, so the schools are underfunded. A low-income Black town will have an old crumbling school with leaks and rats, whereas the posh white town ten miles away which has lots of huge houses, on which lots of property tax is payable, will have the most gorgeous new sparkling school, because of the difference in property taxes. It's a vicious circle and it's that way because of the recently-state-sanctioned racism. There have been studies done which show that, even today, some estate agents tend not to show Black clients around predominantly wealthy white neighbourhoods when the clients can well afford it.

Add to that, everyone in the US is obsessed, and I do mean obsessed, with where you come from. Traditionally, Italians were seen as non-white. Irish were seen as no good. There were signs up saying "No Irish need apply" next to job vacancies. Latin Americans experience a huge amount of racism, and so do mixed-race people. America doesn't really recognise mixed-race. It goes by the so-called one-drop rule, which means that if you've ever had any African ancestor, you're considered Black. Meghan Markle is considered Black in America, not bi-racial. Jade Goody would have been considered Black her. In America, which country you come from - which really means skin colour - is everything. It's terrible, and easily the most disappointing thing about this place.

The broadsheets carry dozens of articles about race per week. Everyone discusses race, all the time. The place is obsessed with race, absolutely obsessed. I know there's racism in Britain, but seriously, it's on a whole different level here. The racism you see in Britain tends to be the result of horrible individuals, whereas in America it's baked into all the systems and so deeply ingrained in society that I'm not sure you can imagine how bad it is if you haven't lived here. I leaved it to you to imagine how many people feel free to be outwardly racist to Black people here, given the background I've just described. Britain never had segregation and never had slavery, whereas America had both, and it shows in the deep, deep racism of society here today. (Yes, I know Britain played an integral role in the slave trade, but we were never allowed to own slaves in Britain, unlike in America.)

I would agree to keep the peace but then I rarely address my DS by his name anyway, usually it’s “darling” or “sweetie” or similar, so it wouldn’t be worth the argument for me to just use his preferred pronunciation on the rare occasions I actually use his name in his presence. Can you just do that, address her by pet names instead?

I think it maybe a bit more than the name - if she lived with her dad and in his country - that her name is one thing you had some control over? That said, she could change her name to anything she likes - and if you want her to answer you - you would need to use it. If you really can't bring yourself to call her what everyone else does - why not just not use her name and call her love or something.

Oh the irony @ChicLilacSeal. it’s not my reading comprehension that’s in need of remedial support. As you seem to struggle with more than one para, I’ve repeated what I replied in the first thread.

I also don’t think that not identifying with a culture she was not raised in, which may have been forced on her negatively if OPs attitude is anything to go by, is twattish either.

If that is too difficult for you to decipher an answer in, in short NO.

Does that help?

Perhaps less time trying to call other people stupid and more on remedying your own quite clear issues would be best for you?

So, yes, you are white (I see you ignored the question in your eagerness to ‘educate’ me).

I didn’t ask for a history lesson. You have stated nothing I don’t know. Although the ignorance of statements like this is pretty breathtaking: Britain never had segregation and never had slavery, whereas America had both, and it shows in the deep, deep racism of society here today. (Yes, I know Britain played an integral role in the slave trade, but we were never allowed to own slaves in Britain, unlike in America.)

I literally just told you that I’m Black, I’ve lived in both places, and I disagree with you. I don’t need to ‘imagine’ anything. I don’t need you to whitesplain racism to me. The fact that you think you can argue with the lived experience of racism speaks volumes about your attitude to the topic.

But it is wrong. The DD has decided she doesn't like the way the name sounds - it isn't her name. "Issa" doesn't sound very nice. "Ee-sah" does, and it's also what she's used to hearing day in and day out. She's an adult, an Italian woman who has no connections to her English heritage aside from her mother, who lives in England and has done since the DD was 16 years old.

given that the vast majority of people with foreign parents are quite happy for their parents to use their own pronunciation of their names,

Again, this is in your experience. It's a family member pronouncing their name wrongly. My DH is called Jonas; pronounced "Yonah". I don't call him "Jo-nass"; it's not his name. No, I'm not his parent but I am his wife and changing how I pronounced something that is his literal identity would be absurd. I can easily pronounce Jonas correctly, just as OP can pronounced "Eesaa."

My DC have Norwegian names and if there was an English variant of pronunciation, I wouldn't use that. Why would I?

Also, the OP and her DD's scenario are different from your average situation. As said above; the DD isn't involved with the English side of her heritage. Why should she want to be? Just because OP thinks she should?

Didn’t read all of this, didn’t need to. Minimising racism to a Black person and trying to other it “not as bad as other countries” is so deeply wrong on every level. Don’t try and intellectualise to minimise someone’s lived experience.

A better analogy would be if people in England started calling your children an anglicised pronunciation of their Norwegian names, and so your children started berating you and your husband for continuing to say their names the Norwegian way.

Or if your husband decided to adopt “Jo-nass” as his name instead of "yonah", and told his parents off for pronouncing his name wrong.

Or if you moved to England and everyone else started calling you an anglicised version of your Irish name, and so you started berating your own parents for continuing to call you the Irish version of your name.

The woman has an English mother who gave her an English name, and she grew up being called that name by her mother. It is in absolutely no way the same as a stranger pronouncing your name wrong.

She’s 22. Is she turned round and said ‘I want to be called Jeff from now on’ then you call her Jeff!

I wouldn't be bothered if my children took on Anglicised versions of their names. I doubt DH's mother would care if he changed his to Jo-nass either, and nor would my parents have been bothered if I changed my name. My older sister actually goes by a nickname totally unrelated to her Irish name and they didn't bat an eyelid!

It's personal choice. I have enough respect for my children to call them what they want to be called. It's their name; it's their identity. I don't know why you're so confused by that. It's very obvious that OP is using this as a power play because she wants to continue to call the DD the English version; her bitterness towards her ex is showing through, and that seems extremely unfair to the DD who has to answer to a name she doesn't remotely relate to.

Surely you call your dd what she asks you to?

Equally, don't YOU minimise my 18 years of lived experience in a deeply racist country. I know how white people talk about Black people in both countries when Black people aren't present, and I can tell you it's extremely different in the US and UK. No difference in the UK. That is not the case in the US.

You gave her the name. She hates it. Stop calling her a name she hates against her wishes.

This is hilarious.

And I’m telling you what I know. And I have no idea why you’d assume I’m a ‘foreigner’ in the US (which is what you are, ironically). I must ‘not know it very well’ because I disagree with you? The caucasity! 🤣

’Your Black friends’. In both places. Right. 😆

I’m not engaging with more paras of you whitesplaining and arguing about racism with me. It’s genuinely not worth my energy, or that of any sane POC to try to explain anything to a white person who thinks they ‘know better’ than us about racism in places we’ve lived.

Thank you. She’s really really awful. And verbose with it.

Well, I'm sorry, but I do have Black friends in both places, having lived for years in London before I lived here. One of my American friends was a news anchor, and she got bullied out of her job...the other two white anchors were saying racist things about her on air, during night time slots, and she got to hear about it from the camera man. None of my non-white friends in London have ever experienced anything so egregious.

I'm not really a foreigner in America anymore; I have citizenship and have lived here 18 years.

I note you declined to say how long you lived in America or where. I bet you lived in NYC or DC for a few months or two years tops. You would know exactly what I'm talking about if you'd spent as long as 18 years somewhere like Mississippi.

You have your lived experience and I have mine. Your bitter and mocking attitude towards my observations is not making you look very good.

It's also pretty much accepted that America is a vastly more racist country than Western Europe. I mean, it's America is famously racist. Famously! Maybe the UK has become more racist since I left tho. Last time I lived there, the analog signal was still on.

I'm not really really awful. I'm telling you what I've observed from having had the privilege of knowing two countries extremely well.

I didn’t decline to say - you didn’t ask. You haven’t actually asked anything, you were too busy educating me about racism. I’m sure your imaginary Black friends really love learning from you, though. 😆

You’ll find that most Black people are ‘bitter’ about racism, and I will continue to mock your verbose whitesplaining. Judging by the responses you’re getting on this thread, the person who ‘doesn’t look very good’ is you.

And that is the last of your noxious ignorant word vomit that I’ll be reading.

Why is it that no matter what a thread is about you get a couple of posters having an argument that is fuck all to do with the OP? Why don't they piss off and start their own thread? It puts people off actually contributing when there are a couple of people dominating the thread with their own issue.

I understand how you feel. It ties in with that part of us that feels our children are always our little girl or boy. Even though we know once they are adults we have little say in their decisions. Rightly so.

You wouldn’t insist on calling anyone else a name they disliked, that would be nuts. I think you’re better off accepting this rather than causing a rift.

I really don't know why you're being so horrible to me. I've observed some terrible racism in America but not as much in Britain, and I'm just telling you about that. Like I said, with the entire developed world apparently tilting to the right, perhaps the UK is worse now than it was when I left in 2007.

And my Black friends are absolutely not imaginary. My two besties and I are a threesome, one white (me), one Black (the former news anchor) and one Puerto Rican. We met at a personal-essay writing class in 2007. I have no idea why this is so difficult to believe.

I'm not going to ask you how long you lived in the US because you're being so awful to me that I don't trust you now to give an honest answer.