That picture of the Southport killer

[User09678]

That has been circulating today.

Remember that sweet boy that was in all the reports at the time? The one who looked about nine?

Can anyone think of any other serious criminal who has pictures of them as a child out in the press?

We weren’t lied to. His violent past couldn’t previously be reported to avoid influencing the trial. This is not unique to this case (look at the further details that came out about Wayne Couzens once he had been convicted).

You were not lied to @Whammyyammy There are strict procedural rules that have to be adhered to in order for a fair trial to take place. No conspiracy. No lies. Just normal rules apply, which is how it should be.

We weren't lied to. Now he has pled guilty all the information about him will be revealed. Also cute children can go on to be killers. Even cute children can be killers. How you look has no bearing on how evil you might be.

This happens after many trials when the history of the perpetrator of a crime comes out, and it turns out they had history. This isn’t unique to this case. It is so there can be a fair trial, if this had gone to trial with a plea of not guilty how awful would it have been if it collapsed because someone had leaked some of the background.

9/11 was carried out in the name of Al Qaeda. It was very vocally claimed by them and justified by them.

Brevers carried out his attacks as an act against the government, which he maintained all the way through his trial.

This lad committed horrific acts, yes. But they were not politically motivated acts carried out in the name of a cause. So not terrorism.

Ricin isn't a substance typically associated with Muslim extremist groups. So far as I remember, most instances have involved the threat of using it and when investigated, the substance hasn't even been in their possession. Most use of it, certainly in the last 30 years or so, has been from far right extremists in USA.

And as for the manual, he absorbed a lot of information and violence from many different sources. It just so happened that the Al Qaeda manual was in his possession when his house was searched, and is exhaustively banned under terrorism laws. I've read the Quran and I'm not a Muslim. Someone can read a terrorist bible and not be a terrorist.

I don't mean his past. I mean why we're we only shown a photograph of a little schoolboy and not the actual man that he is.

But who would have hidden other photos of him, and why? An unrepresentative picture isn’t going to result in his getting a lesser sentence. Surely it’s more likely that this was the only photo of him the media could find?

Because it was the only/most recent picture in the public domain at the time. If the press had had a more recent picture, they'd have used it.

Now he has entered a guilty plea so his mugshot has been released, which it couldn't be prior to this. So there are two pictures in the public domain. What a wide choice.

Islamophobia.

It is a difficult conversation. But there needs to be a grown up discussion about the large number of people amongst us now who lack affect, and don't think other people are as real or consequential as them; how we identify them, whether steps can be taken to teach them these things, and whether we are justified in restricting their access to other people when they cannot make progress here.

I expect Starmer confiscated all photos that showed him as an older teenager and hid them under Yvette Cooper's mattress.

Did you not see the court sketchings?

To stop even more people taking to the streets to protest

Which large number of people? Thankfully people like Axel Rudakubana are rare, which is why there is so much being written about the case and so much attention on it.

Why would that mugshot have made more people take to the streets?

Having incel tendencies is terrorism in my judgement. I am glad the law will now change in order to reflect this.

These are my guesses

His parents didn't have any recent photos because he wasn't engaged with them in that way any more - ditto other family/friends

He wasn't in school latterly so none from there

Press often lift pics from Facebook and other SM - no selfies/not accessible - police had all his devices

Police mugshot cannot be made available until trial completed

It most certainly instilled terror on those at the event. Is that not the aim?

Am catching up so haven't read the whole thread but I just don't understand how this (apparently quite common) line of thinking makes any sense.

How what AR did could possibly ever be "downplayed" by anyone seems impossible, and a photo of him as a kid takes none of that away, surely. There's never been any hint of another suspect in the frame, or a scintilla of sympathy for a 'cute kid' with problems. He did it. We know what he did in horrific detail. It is stuff of nightmares, unfathomable and unforgivable in any right-thinking society.

There is and has been a process here and I think we can be quite confident despite the fact he can't get a whole life tariff he will never be released.

Because people were (in part) motivated by a sense that they're held in contempt by authorities who are happy to sacrifice their safety and wellbeing for rewards reaped by said authorities.

A sweet looking innocent child sends a message that this was entirely unforeseeable and nothing could have been done to prevent it.

The picture we are talking about now would have added significant fuel to that already burning fire. They were trying to suppress public backlash.

You will be glad to know that Starmer agrees with you. He said:

I think most people would say, looking at the facts of this case, it’s clearly extreme violence, it’s clearly intended to terrorise and I completely accept and understand that, and that is my view.

Therefore, we have to make sure that the law and the framework for responding is appropriate to the new threat that we face. And we will make whatever changes are necessary in the law to deal with it.

We're all "people of colour". Stop putting some races on a pedestal whilst putting one race down. It needs to STOP.

Oh go on then, you twisted my arm, one more vote for Reform - see? They keep growing and growing. I can't work out why

@Sapienza
@porcuporpoise

Just reading about him on bbc - born and brought up in a place with a vast majority of white people, faced relentless racial bullying, tried to call childline for help then (rightly) expelled at 13, but not much help given. Referred to Prevent three times. I can’t help but wonder if the parents had moved to a more multicultural place, if he had not been bullied, if he had received help and de-radicalised by Prevent, he would’ve have had such a different life. Now three innocent children are dead.
So many people in his path failed him. He undoubtedly has mental health issues.
Answers are needed indeed. I’ll wait to find out what the inquest finds.

Why is there a disconnect between referrals and crime?

Of those in custody for terrorism connected offences in Great Britain as at 30 June 2024, 63% were categorised as holding Islamist-extremist views, 29% were categorised as holding Extreme Right-Wing ideologies, and the remaining 9% were categorised as holding beliefs related to other ideologies.

I'm still a little bemused at what is so shocking and horrifying and horror-film-like about a picture of an adult man with Afro hair making a face. His hair could be more kempt, but he's not accused of crimes against hairdressing.

I'm also a little 🤔at the idea that Starmer conspired in this, given that at the time he was neither PM nor Director of Public Prosecutions but a member of HM Opposition whose interests, if anything, would be to criticise the sitting government. Also that people think the government can just tell the press what to publish (that's sort of the opposite of democracy, and would get out very quickly and be an enormous, press- and Government-sinking scandal) or that the press would have any interest in doing anything but ginning up outrage and horror. If there had been a picture of Rudakubana looking grown up and crazy, or grown up at all, at the time of the crime, 100% every press platform would have led with it.