Did I raise shallow kids?!!

[rubberduck68]

My ex-husband is rich, and I’m not: I bailed with little money and a small home for me and our kids that I paid for, grateful to get out of the toxic relationship. He has a massive mansion house four hours away (he moved) and two holiday homes abroad, and a live-in GF twenty years younger than him. We have shared custody amicably for ten years, but our adult kids have recently both moved in with him and have said they will be staying there until he buys them their own homes nearby. I was not consulted about this, not even a polite heads-up. On the rare occasion that I talk to either of them (both early twenties), all they do is talk about their privileged lifestyle and the family unit they are creating as a foursome. I feel jealous and excluded, but also a bit annoyed with my kids that they are being quite shallow in following his cheque book. He's emotionally challenged and not very loving or affectionate, and they know that. Am I being unreasonable to feel upset?

It’s easy to see our own lives in a very black and white way, but the reality will be more complicated that that you had a happy stable relationship with your children then they suddenly dumped you completely and went to their dad’s because he is rich. Try to stay in touch and ask them what is really going on.

"On the rare occasion that I talk to either of them (both early twenties), all they do is talk about their privileged lifestyle and the family unit they are creating as a foursome."
Isn't that just their lives though? You may view it as a privileged lifestyle, but the things they're doing make up most of their lives (even if it's 'oh we went for a lovely expensive meal and a spa day at the weekend, and I bought a new expensive coat'). If you're not willing to have conversations about their lives, it's not really much wonder that it's rare that you're speaking to them! Can you not actually show an interest in their lives when you do speak to them, and perhaps that'll actually go somewhat to helping you build back a relationship with them.

Yeah it sounds like a late case of parental alienation to me. He's clearly in their ears about you in some way. Probably making out he wanted to see them more and you got in the way...

I couldn't not mention my surprise at the change in relationship to them. Yes in a neutral way as far as possible, but it wouldn't be very authentic if you said nothing. I'd probably feign confusion in a short message as a pp suggested.

I think a lot of 20 somethings would pick the rich lifestyle, especially if a house is on offer. If your ex is scathing about you, they’re probably keeping on the right side of him. I don’t know what the answer is but how horrible for you. I’d like to think they’ll see the error of their ways in time.

Of course I show an interest in their lives, and I am polite and kind to them. I am venting on here, because I have not vented to them!

Thanks, I think I will try the feigning confusion.

I do not wear it as a badge, it's just a backstory to this thread, and I do not think that because I raised them they should taken nothing from him. He paid maintenance when they were younger and took them on many expensive holidays which I was fine with BUT as young adults I do think there is a comfortable middle ground between taking support and learning to stand on your own two feed, and in my opinion having a house bought outright for you in cash is more than a "leg up." I would class giving them a deposit a "leg up", and yes housing them when they need it, a "leg up".

yes I expect this is true. I'm going to have to pick the right moments to try and get to the emotional bedrock of what is going on here because the sudden upping sticks and moving so far away to be with him needs some context for me.

I did approach the ex about it and I got told to F-off. Delightful to the end... I have asked the kids and I've been brushed off with platitudes, "fancied a change," and the best one, "I will have my own bathroom." I am a fan of the en-suite, but hardly ploughing the emotional depths as responses, which I expect as young adults they don't want to do with their mother, which makes me sad as we've always talked everything through no matter how tough in the past.

Tricky because I’d tend to say just talk to them about how you feel

but you could push them further away if you do

Yes I've been reading all the responses on here and thinking about that. The reason I haven't done that is I don't want them to feel any guilt for leaving me, or make it a tug of love between two parents kind of thing, BUT I do think I am justified in saying that the lack of communication or willingness to see me is becoming hurtful...because it is! If a friend did that, I'd have to bring it up...

I agree that this is late parental alienation.
Personally, I'd continue to make the effort with phone calls and texts weekly (even if you don't get a response) and wait for the gloss to wear off. It will at some point. You don't need to feel jealous; this isn't some special relationship with their dad. He's their cash cow. He's bought their affection with promises of ensuite rooms and free houses. He can feel smug, but that's shittier than your situation really (in my mind anyway).
I admit I'd be disappointed with my kids, but the lure of "stuff" is strong at that age. Hopefully as time goes by, they will see that.

Op, reap the benefits of your open relationship with your grown children. Do not let them become estranged.
You are still wiser than them.

Once a month travel up there, stay in a Motel and see them. Invite them to lunch with you. Take a walk in nature together.
Encourage them in their new work and life. Be proud of them. Always say that they are welcome to come and see you.
Don't pressure them and don't feel bitter but DO enjoy them.

How hard it must be for them to accept so much generosity from their father and still keep their independence and self esteem.

I would consider moving there. If that’s was where all my kids were and the only way to keep a relationship going

You sound like a lovely mum and it’s such a horrible situation. I agree it sounds like parental alienation. You say you only say nice things about their dad to to them but I’m not sure that’s a good idea. I’m not saying you should bitch about him either. But you can state the truth plainly. They’re old enough to hear some truths and it creates confusion and a sense of unreality when we airbrush the truth to make everything nicer. I get why you did it though, it’s a difficult one to navigate. I’m just concerned that he is twisting the truth to make you look bad and painting a really negative picture of you, and then you’re telling them their dad is great. It feels imbalanced. I really hope your children come to their senses sooner rather than later and realise how much more they have with you, a loving, involved and emotionally mature parent.

Sensible advice. Eaten bread is soon forgotten they say. Your ex might discover this later....

Sounds like your gut is telling you what to do, talk to them
I hope it works

try and make sure you do it in a way that’s as positive as possible like I love you guys and I’d love to spend more time with you
when are you free and what do you fancy doing

good luck
I hope it works

1. He is their dad, if they want to live with him they can. You can't expect them to choose you or be loyal to you, he's their dad.

1. They're young adults. It's har dro get on the property ladder, they probably feel abit owed by him. Accepting a house off him isn't a bad thing and choosing a nicer life for themselves isn't materialistic imo

I have very much avoided making my children feel like they had to "choose" between their parents: he was free to see them and visa versa whenever they chose but he rarely showed up.

I was wondering how often I should go up there. Having them move far away may always have happened, but this is my first experience of not living close to my adult kids. What is the norm for how often to see them without encroaching on their lives?

I'm so sorry, OP.
What I would do in your situation.... back off, completely back off. Don't call if they don't call. Forget about them for some time. Find something that you would like to do for yourself. Take out some savings and travel the world. Move to a place you always wanted to live in. See things you always wanted to see. Meet some other interesting people, start some engaging hobby.

I remember when I was in my early 20s. My parents didn't give me anything, but if they were separated and one was rich and ready to buy me a house, I wouldn't think twice.

There is only one life. Working hard is important if you have no other way to have a good life. BUT in these times it is incredible to be gifted a house when you are young. It makes your life so much easier. I know it's difficult but pls try not to judge them, criticise them, etc. They are (young) adults and they work. I think it's time for you to step back and be busy with your life now. If they want to come back one day, they will.

They should still keep in contact with their mum who did all the hard work when they were growing up when their dad couldn't be bothered to see them.

OP has never bad-mouthed their father to her children, but their dad doesn't show OP the same courtesy. It does sound like some parental alienation is going on.

Her children aren't unreasonable to accept houses from him. Most people would jump at the chance. However, there is no reason for them to cut their mum out of their lives probably at the instigation of their dad. That would be a horrible thing to do.

What a weird martyrish attitude. Thank god, my whole family and even relatives think like your ex and not like you.

My dad's also wealthy. Funny enough, he got a 'leg up' as you call it from his parents, they paid for his studies, bought him his first house and helped him financially when he started his business. They did it with all three of their kids. It didn't turn him (or the other two) into some useless human being, his business was very successful, he multiplied his wealth many-fold since then, bought multiple properties, land, etc since then.

He did the same two us, my sibling and me. Paid for our studies, bought us homes, helped out financially when we were very young. We're both doing great now, too.

He has more money than he could possibly need (his words). So instead of making his own offsprings' lives easier and more pleasant, he'd better keep it in the bank and see us struggle with mortgages, etc? Just....because? So we would experience struggle, hardship and 'real life'? We're both working, we're not sitting on our arses and he's happy with that.

I'll definitely follow my grandparents' and dad's example and not yours with my DD. It's moronic to make your own flesh and blood suffer if you have all opportunities to prevent it.

If my mother thought like you, I'd cut ties too, tbh.

Did you whole family "think like" my ex? Really? Did your dad abandon you when you needed him most too? I think what is lacking in your contribution to this thread is context. Also, maybe check out the meaning of a "martyr" because I have not suggested even a hint of that. Teaching your children how to fend for themselves is not the same thing at all. Calling me a moron for wanting my kids to be self sufficient makes no sense whatsoever, it's just insulting and lacks good manners and intelligence, which I guess money can't buy. Oh, and if you'd cut ties with your own mother for wanting you to be independent, well I guess that says more about you than me or my kids.

Whatever you do don't just go up there without them agreeing