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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think car seat safety groups on Facebook are absolutely mental!

138 replies

Busby88 · 18/01/2025 22:54

Not sure if many MN members are part of some of the car seat safety groups on Facebook but honestly can’t believe what a mad population they are (and I know MN can also be pretty bonkers!)

Joined for advice on high backed boosters as want to put my almost 5yo in one and all it is is comments about how they should still be rear facing. Seen comments similar aimed at people with almost six year olds looking to forward face.

I completely get the safety aspect and how much safer rear facing is, I really do. And will be rear facing my 4yo as long as possible in my car, but he’s reached the 18kg limit in the seat we have for grandparents to us and it would be nice to just be able to get some advice without just being yelled at for being unsafe.

Honestly can’t believe the negativity and unhelpfulness aimed at people who are even considering forward facing before the age of 6.

OP posts:
saraclara · 19/01/2025 23:30

Out of curiosity I looked at the Trust Pilot reviews for the forum owner who has her own business selling car seats.
OMG. The one star reviews, and her spectacularly rude responses to them!

I'm pretty sure that many of the 5* ones are written by her friends. They don't read naturally at all.

TempestTost · 19/01/2025 23:55

RandomUsernameHere · 19/01/2025 13:24

It all sounds very extreme. If they're really that worried about safety, the safest thing would be to never allow their child to travel in a car at all.

This is what I find so bizarre. Surely if you were really of the view that every precaution that you can possibly take is mandatory, morally speaking, the thing to do is never take the child out of the home.

Of course, if everyone did that, almost all deaths of children would take place in the home, so that would then be the riskiest place to be!

TempestTost · 20/01/2025 00:09

B2B25 · 19/01/2025 21:54

There's a way to deliver information. They are just rude. People are a lot more likely to listen to you when you're not a dick.

It's because they think that everyone will agree with them, if they just quote their "facts" because they don't understand that people weigh up all kinds of competing elements.

So anyone in their mind who disagrees is stupid or doesn't love their kids and deserves to be treated like shit.

They can't cope with people who disagreed with their math either.

Clumble · 20/01/2025 00:13

I agree OP.

I rear face and plan on maxing out my DS' 25kg seat. When I first came across the car safety groups I really bought into it all. I still do believe it's safer and would also rear face future children but the groups themselves are just awful.

There's one admin particular who I actually wonder what's happened to as I feel I've watched a descent into a complete personality change over a couple of years. She started off polite and informative and really interested in educating people. I only rarely saw her be quite firm and that was when eg someone was refusing all suggestions because they wanted one with prettier patterns and she pointed out that safety was more important.

Then over the years something changed and she became more and more aggressive. It's not just aimed at the people arguing with her - people really politely asking for advice or questions get jumped on, sarcastic comments and really aggressively spoken to especially if they don't know something that's common knowledge on there. A lot of people seem quite frightened by her and I feel bad because part of the reason people buy from the admin businesses is to get the aftercare support and advice from that group but it's no longer a welcoming place.

One of the main things that bothers me is the reply people get when their children have managed to open the buckle of their car seat. At one point I remember admins would suggest eg Velcro on the button or a certain belt buckle clip that was safety tested.

However now I always see one admin in particular respond to these posts saying that they need to parent and teach their child to behave, shouting really loudly if needed to so they know it's serious. Which might sound fine until I mention that they're often asking about very young toddlers eg early 2s or even in one case 18 months old!!!! She told the parent of the 18 month old that it was her job to teach her child not to do it and to discipline the child. When the mum questioned this (probably assuming she'd misread the age as 18m is not far off a baby) the admin was really unkind eg "what would you do if she was about to run into a road? Or reached out to burn their hand?"

Umm... well not scream at them to be honest? I'd be more concerned with physically grabbing them to keep them safe which you can't do in a car seat and is why ideally a solution would involve stopping them escaping at all.

I'm just amazed that its a group where forward facing a child is basically murdering them and they're so serious about getting exactly the right fit and making sure the right clothes are worn etc. Yet they think it's ok to leave the safety of a 1 year old dependent on how well they remember being screamed at my their mum.Even if you manage to "scare" them, they do not have good impulse control at that age and I cannot comprehend how you can leave life or death up to how well your one year old behaves and does what you tell them to.

I even saw someone whose child was a bit older but had autism and didn't understand the consequences of opening the buckle. The admin got in an argument with this person basically saying that lots of autistic people can learn not to undo the buckle and that it was offensive to autistic people to say that. The poster clarified that she wasn't saying all autistic people can't understand consequences but specifically her child. She got jumped on by the car seat cult and basically told it was a parenting issue.

Honestly seeing such a lack of understanding of child development has put me off massively and actually made me trust the whole thing a lot less. Also, a lot of non-car seat topics posted seem quite "woo" and it does have the same cultish vibe as the BLW groups.

I initially saw it as really scientific and evidence based but often when someone asks for evidence they post eg a YouTube video of someone saying it's safer (I can post a YouTube video of me saying I have a pet dinosaur but I don't think the museum of natural history are going to see it and give me a visit). Or they post a video from one of the manufacturers of the seat. Or a random flyer with no source for the information.

I've spent so many hours researching and I do actually still think it's likely significantly safer to rear face but I also think perhaps it's not the end of the world kind of thing I once thought.

The safe vs unsafe thing bothers me too. They act as if one thing is safe and one thing is unsafe and that's it. Safe is obviously a spectrum. Sitting the baby on the roof and driving down the motorway is extremely unsafe. Never putting your child in a car is the most safe. We take risks all the time. We just minimise them as we can.

I find it so annoying that they act like rear facing a 3 year 10 month old child is the same risk as putting a 9 month old straight from an infant carrier to a front facing seat. We all put our line of acceptable risk somewhere. I actually think it's fair enough if they want to decline giving advice about front facing before a certain age but I do wish they'd refer to things being safER than other things instead of safe vs unsafe.

TempestTost · 20/01/2025 00:23

I actually think it's fair enough if they want to decline giving advice about front facing before a certain age but I do wish they'd refer to things being safER than other things instead of safe vs unsafe.

And really, they need to decide - what is safe enough? What is the level of safety that is ok? That's how most people make decisions - they decide that the car seat regulations have decided for them what is safe enough, so they feel any legal car seat is a reasonable choice. And that seems a pretty sane way to think.

If you get into this "must be the safest" approach, there is no ceiling.

JandamiHash · 20/01/2025 02:05

saraclara · 19/01/2025 23:30

Out of curiosity I looked at the Trust Pilot reviews for the forum owner who has her own business selling car seats.
OMG. The one star reviews, and her spectacularly rude responses to them!

I'm pretty sure that many of the 5* ones are written by her friends. They don't read naturally at all.

<Gets into Trust Pilot immediately>

Is this the group called Car Seat Safety UK that has people constantly thanking some woman for sending them a random branded car seat??

GreenTeaLikesMe · 20/01/2025 02:28

Thing is, you could also halve your child's risk of dying in an accident by halving the amount of time they spend in a car.

Yet few people judge parents for putting their children in extra curriculars or private schools that require loads of time in the car. Or for living in rural areas by choice (=commuters, not farmers or doing a genuinely rural job) or straggling out-of-town housing estates, where families'll also constantly be in the car AND the kids will probably have to start driving themselves everywhere as soon as they turn 17, which statistically puts them at high risk. If kids can start driving at 20 or 21 rather than 17, that alone cuts out a very large chunk of the riskiest stuff. Oh, and during your child's babyhood, you will almost certainly end up having to drive your baby and toddler about when you are suffering from sleep deprivation, if you choose to live in an area where there are basically no transport alternatives and nothing in walking distance.

Yet I see little discussion about this on parenting groups. Just car seats and car seats alone seem to inspire this sort of febrile monomania among a certain type of parents. I think people should basically get a car seat and use it correctly, but beyond that point the law of diminishing returns sets in rather quickly.

JandamiHash · 20/01/2025 02:41

GreenTeaLikesMe · 20/01/2025 02:28

Thing is, you could also halve your child's risk of dying in an accident by halving the amount of time they spend in a car.

Yet few people judge parents for putting their children in extra curriculars or private schools that require loads of time in the car. Or for living in rural areas by choice (=commuters, not farmers or doing a genuinely rural job) or straggling out-of-town housing estates, where families'll also constantly be in the car AND the kids will probably have to start driving themselves everywhere as soon as they turn 17, which statistically puts them at high risk. If kids can start driving at 20 or 21 rather than 17, that alone cuts out a very large chunk of the riskiest stuff. Oh, and during your child's babyhood, you will almost certainly end up having to drive your baby and toddler about when you are suffering from sleep deprivation, if you choose to live in an area where there are basically no transport alternatives and nothing in walking distance.

Yet I see little discussion about this on parenting groups. Just car seats and car seats alone seem to inspire this sort of febrile monomania among a certain type of parents. I think people should basically get a car seat and use it correctly, but beyond that point the law of diminishing returns sets in rather quickly.

Edited

Excellent post.

DonningMyHardHat · 20/01/2025 07:04

TempestTost · 20/01/2025 00:23

I actually think it's fair enough if they want to decline giving advice about front facing before a certain age but I do wish they'd refer to things being safER than other things instead of safe vs unsafe.

And really, they need to decide - what is safe enough? What is the level of safety that is ok? That's how most people make decisions - they decide that the car seat regulations have decided for them what is safe enough, so they feel any legal car seat is a reasonable choice. And that seems a pretty sane way to think.

If you get into this "must be the safest" approach, there is no ceiling.

Completely agree with this.

Though of course the ‘but in Scandinavia/Sweden’ brigade will disagree. There is a weird fetishisation of Scandinavia amongst a certain type of middle-class parent. ERF is just one facet of the Montessori, Pickler Triangle, wooden everything, Grimm’s Rainbow cult of parenting.

PeonyBlushSuede · 20/01/2025 07:43

BarbaraHoward · 19/01/2025 13:30

Never braved the FB groups but the threads on here are bad enough.

Never mind the (horrific) emotional blackmail stuff like "you can't put a price on safety" and "I guess I just care more about my children's safety" (a direct quote from yesterday's thread).

But the numeracy is just awful. All you see is claims like "five times safer" but FIVE TIMES WHAT?! Never once have I seen that information. Not sure if they just don't want to acknowledge they don't know or if they genuinely don't realise that they're not actually providing any useful information.

Same with the stats. Also stats can often be read/reported in multiple ways to make the point you want.

I remember looking in pregnancy as I was plus size and there was a scary stat that some danger was 3x more likely in a plus size pregnancy.

This was correct but it took the chance of it happening from 1% in a normal weight pregnancy to 3% in a plus size pregnancy.

So yes 3x more likely ... but still 97% chance of it not happening!

StrawberryD · 20/01/2025 07:47

Yes it's like a cult on there! I left in the end

Feelinadequate23 · 20/01/2025 07:51

YANBU. Due to our volunteering and current stage of life, DH and I work with many families with pre-schoolers. I haven't yet come across a single child still rear-facing after age 2. And this is in a "well to do" town, where people have money to choose what they think is best and are always onto latest parenting trends, e.g. baby-led weaning, gentle parenting etc. These forums are very much fringe communities!

It's the same with the anti-formula brigade and the anti-sleep training brigade. The people in all of these groups come across as nutters with nothing better to do - puts everyone off and makes the individuals come across as a bit dim tbh! Really remind me of the pro-lifers!

AgeGapBbe · 20/01/2025 09:16

There are some cheap rear facing options ( I think one of the seats is about £100 but couldn’t swear to it), so it isn’t necessary about cost. This is the sort of stuff that the groups were good for- as people’s assumptions don’t help.

I’m feeling annoyed it turns out I wasn’t on the crackers group though! Tempted to join just for the entertainment!

cadburyegg · 20/01/2025 09:24

So relieved to read this thread has mostly sensible posts rather than a descent into madness comparable to the very groups we are talking about.

BarbaraHoward · 20/01/2025 09:24

GreenTeaLikesMe · 20/01/2025 02:28

Thing is, you could also halve your child's risk of dying in an accident by halving the amount of time they spend in a car.

Yet few people judge parents for putting their children in extra curriculars or private schools that require loads of time in the car. Or for living in rural areas by choice (=commuters, not farmers or doing a genuinely rural job) or straggling out-of-town housing estates, where families'll also constantly be in the car AND the kids will probably have to start driving themselves everywhere as soon as they turn 17, which statistically puts them at high risk. If kids can start driving at 20 or 21 rather than 17, that alone cuts out a very large chunk of the riskiest stuff. Oh, and during your child's babyhood, you will almost certainly end up having to drive your baby and toddler about when you are suffering from sleep deprivation, if you choose to live in an area where there are basically no transport alternatives and nothing in walking distance.

Yet I see little discussion about this on parenting groups. Just car seats and car seats alone seem to inspire this sort of febrile monomania among a certain type of parents. I think people should basically get a car seat and use it correctly, but beyond that point the law of diminishing returns sets in rather quickly.

Edited

Read this post this morning and love it.

Currently on Trustpilot reading one star reviews. 👀

TickingAlongNicely · 20/01/2025 09:29

Most of the children who die in car accidents are pedestrians or on bikes... the best way to ensure our children's safety is to reduce the number of unsafe drivers (harsher penalties for phones, drinking, drugs, speeding etc) reduce speed limits, use smaller cars and to increase road safety awareness. More pedestrian crossings near schools. Stop giving teens a screen to stare out while they walk. (See that frequently living near a school... preteens so engrossed in their phone they step out into a road without looking!)

Modernfamily2011 · 20/01/2025 11:39

I completely agree with all the above posts! I was also a member of the same FB Group and was genuinely looking for advice and was met with rude and arrogant responses.....one of my posts was instantly deleted when I asked a question....
I am still no clearer in the car seat safety and to be honest, the group itself has actually done me more harm as i'm terrified that I have the wrong seat!
There really should be more helpful information for parents on the correct car seat with regards to weight and height, it's so confusing
The lady who runs that page seems to have become quite aggressive and the majority of the responses from her are argumentative and condescending.
I'm now off to read the reviews on Trust Pilot!

dynamiccactus · 20/01/2025 12:04

Ignore the FB groups and go onto the Which? website for advice. You need to be a member for some information but there's a lot on there for free.

MandSCrisps · 20/01/2025 12:32

I totally agree with the reduced amount of time in a car. Some people don’t want to change their lives.
I do know someone who is very pro rear facing and tried to push me to doing it for a long time. It didn’t work out for us though and DD wouldn’t have tolerated it. We had to avoid driving because of car sickness quite often.

Ive come across numerous parents who have their toddlers just on a booster and even get rid of that fairly early. That’s the people they should be concerned with.

Sinkintotheswamp · 20/01/2025 13:35

green exactly, I changed my job to one within walking distance once I became a lone parents with 2 tiny kids. I knew it wasn't safe for me to be heading out in a car every day.

NoKnit · 20/01/2025 14:05

Let's face it safer is not transporting your kid absolutely everywhere by car. Walk to school and nursery etc. But nobody has the nerve to say that

heroinechic · 20/01/2025 15:18

The car seat safety group with Gabi as an admin (think her business is SimplySafeCarseats or something like that) is absolutely mental. I left after Gabi told a disabled woman (disabled due to lack of sight) that she was just choosing to get the bus and if she cared enough she could drive. The woman explained her condition and Gabi told her she'd googled it so she knew best and everyone who stuck up for the woman or even liked a comment was removed from the group.

According to the reviews on her business she calls customers bitches, threatens to go to their house and assault them (has their address from when they ordered), harasses people who complain on all of their social media accounts etc. I really cannot believe anyone buys from her!

Sinkintotheswamp · 20/01/2025 16:04

Poor trust pilot reviews aren't always the end of the world.

The business responding rudely to them is. Talk about digging a hole for yourself.

TempestTost · 20/01/2025 17:57

heroinechic · 20/01/2025 15:18

The car seat safety group with Gabi as an admin (think her business is SimplySafeCarseats or something like that) is absolutely mental. I left after Gabi told a disabled woman (disabled due to lack of sight) that she was just choosing to get the bus and if she cared enough she could drive. The woman explained her condition and Gabi told her she'd googled it so she knew best and everyone who stuck up for the woman or even liked a comment was removed from the group.

According to the reviews on her business she calls customers bitches, threatens to go to their house and assault them (has their address from when they ordered), harasses people who complain on all of their social media accounts etc. I really cannot believe anyone buys from her!

She wanted her to drive while blind??

That seems... more dangerous than a front facing car seat.

Saltandvin · 20/01/2025 18:04

TempestTost · 20/01/2025 17:57

She wanted her to drive while blind??

That seems... more dangerous than a front facing car seat.

😂