To think car seat safety groups on Facebook are absolutely mental!

[Busby88]

Not sure if many MN members are part of some of the car seat safety groups on Facebook but honestly can’t believe what a mad population they are (and I know MN can also be pretty bonkers!)

Joined for advice on high backed boosters as want to put my almost 5yo in one and all it is is comments about how they should still be rear facing. Seen comments similar aimed at people with almost six year olds looking to forward face.

I completely get the safety aspect and how much safer rear facing is, I really do. And will be rear facing my 4yo as long as possible in my car, but he’s reached the 18kg limit in the seat we have for grandparents to us and it would be nice to just be able to get some advice without just being yelled at for being unsafe.

Honestly can’t believe the negativity and unhelpfulness aimed at people who are even considering forward facing before the age of 6.

There's no rear facing harnessed seat on the market which goes beyond 125cm, so the 36kg seats are almost always outgrown by height, not weight.

I’d always ask BertieBotts on here.

I honestly sometimes think MN should pay her, she’s so informative and helpful but also unfailingly NICE.

I often feel those groups lack the nuance between less safe and unsafe

Exactly this! Lots of people have a very poor appreciation of relative risk. I once got drawn into a debate with someone because I said that the safest thing (if we are going to talk absolutes) is to not let your child travel in a car at all but I don’t think she got the point I was trying to make and we went off at a massive tangent.

We have the airbag one! It’s great, our LB loves it.

Another aspect to safety is the driver being confident to focus on the road and their driving.

I'm a widowed grandma, so didn't have another adult in the car with me when I drove with my little grandchildren in rear facing seats. Even with the extra mirrors I couldn't see their faces, and that freaked me out. I couldn't confirm that they were okay, and so I was slightly distracted and worrying about them rather than just concentrating on driving.

I won't say what age my DD put them forward facing, but it was a huge relief to me. When I have them now, I'm a safer driver, because I can check on them with the briefest of glances in the rear view mirror.

I've never been on these groups but I defriended someone who went on and on about car seats and eventually was practically 'PARENTS WHO USE FORWARD FACING SEATS BEFORE AGE 4 ARE MURDERS'. I mean, it wasn't quite that extreme, but close. A lot of 'holier than thou' about it.

depsite my kids being 8 and 12 I’ve stayed in two types of groups because the mental posts are hysterical - that is car seat safety and breastfeeding groups.

I forward faced both mine at 12 months. They would scream being rear facing by the age of 1 (they both get motion sickness now so it may have been that) and I felt it was more dangerous to have two screaming children in the car than just facing them forward

When my 2 year old started getting car sickness when rear facing we turned her around, her legs were getting a big long anyway.....

I think keeping an average sized 6 year old rear facing is bonkers. My first daughter was tall enough not to even need a car seat by 8...

Its been a gamechanger! He started off beeing able to take his arms out then one day driving down one of those smart motorways with no hard shoulder to stop he unclipped the harness and climbed out his seat! It was so terrifying! I avoided longer journeys and the motorway as he found it a funny game as I had to pull over to strap him back in! A lady in mamas and papas suggested putting the hard side of velcro on the harness clip but it didn't stop him! He likes his pillow I call it to him on the cybex car seat and he looks and seems comfortable in it and his arms aren't long enough to undo the belt that holds it in place but he's not even attempted to! I reccomend the cybex car seat with the impact shield to all my toddler mum friends! We are finally able to go places without worry and stressing when he undoes the harness where can I pull over next!

It’s to do with bone ossification, particularly the within the vertebrae. The vertebrae most commonly injured during a car accident doesn’t close until around 4, though in some children later. The older the child, the more their bones will have hardened, decreasing the risk of injury in a crash.

A forward facing 5 point harnessed seat in a collision will pin the child’s body back and fling their head forward putting excessive pressure on the child’s neck. The impact will be more evenly distributed in a rear facing seat.

My ds is quite small so I’d like to keep him rear facing until 6-7, or whenever he’s big enough to safely have a high backed booster using a normal seatbelt. In a bigger child it wouldn’t necessarily need to be as long.

Hope this helps without making me sound like part of the cult!

I also think that people who are avid “we must follow all of the rules all of the time” don’t take into account that knowledge, research and recommendations change constantly. I used cot bumpers with my DD before they got banned because the messages back then were “It reduces head bangs”. Same with those thingies that you hooked to do door frame so they could bounce being told it’s safe and helps with leg development or something. Wholly and faithfully buying into advice is not the holy grail people think it is

I actually once posted something similar to the above on a car seat group and had about 8 women trawling through my profile pictures and telling me how ugly they think I am 😔

I've seen these pages. I just don't know how kids fit into a rear facing seat as they get bigger.

DD is 5 and tall, her knees would be up by her ears if she was rear facing.

Ha! I’m in a few purely for shits and giggles too. So entertaining. Probably why I’m here too. Every now and then I ponder going mad and posting about how I don’t want to ERF because it would wreck the beautiful leather of my seats 🔥

I think harnessed is considered less safe in this situation because it holds the body in place while, in a crash, the head would be forced forward, putting pressure on the neck.

Whereas, in a HBB with a seatbelt, the whole child (and seat) would move forward a little bit, before being stopped by the seatbelt, with less pressure on the neck,

But yes, I do agree that the groups can get crazy and can be a totally toxic environment.

It is cult-like. They all know what they consider to be good, and what they consider to be "bad", and if somebody comes on saying the wrong thing, you can just tell they are going to get ripped to shreds.

I'm all for making the best choices you can to keep your kids safe....but I often wonder if these parents are applying the same rigid standards of safety to all aspects of their kids lives and I don't see how they could to be honest. It would be impossible to maintain.

It's a shame because there is some good info in these groups, and it's ruined by people just taking things to the extreme and then piling on people who aren't totally indoctrinated the way they are.

I fully support ERF and will be rear facing my son for as long as reasonably possible, as it truly is safest - however, the biggest Facebook group is fucking insane. All the other admins/retailers fucked off and left two in charge, one of them just being the most arrogant person going.

I got kicked for a comment in another mom group where I said the environment was a bit hostile and unsupportive because of one of the admins (not named or anything). Someone must have screencapped the comments. It’s so weird and culty. And inappropriate when you read the reviews on Trustpilot for her company and history of threatening to contact people’s places of work etc because they left a bad review or comment in a group.

My friend was booted for liking a comment where someone had said that using the death of a toddler in a car crash as propaganda in the group (‘maybe if this child had been in an axkid they’d not be dead!’) was a bit off-colour. I got good information from the group but people could be so bitchy and rude. No one knows everything from the get-go, nor can we everyone afford the most expensive seat.

I agree with the mission to improve car seat safety, but not with how some of these groups are so quick to shame people. Plus the conflict of interest when they’ll only offer fit checks to people who’ve bought from them. If you buy an Axkid or an Avionaut (very good seats that they recommend) from an online shop not them, they won’t help and I think that’s kinda shitty. Of course they’ll say your Joie R129 isn’t quite good enough, they don’t stock those in their own online shops! Some of the admins were great, but it all gets overshadowed by the few on a power trip who seems to get off on making moms feel bad, and the people who jump right on posts of bad seats as if the parent purposely wanted to waste money on a crap car seat.

As if the parents of kids who get carsick haven't tried any of the other stuff first. It's not an excuse to turn them FF, we only do it because it actually helps, and is much safer and less stressful than the alternative. The likelihood of having an accident is low. Child choking on vomit on every journey = much higher overall risk of harm.

I think that every comment on this thread is about her and her group, so toxic. Saw before I got booted that all the admins left and wanted to know what happened there!

That’s why a four year old would be safer rear facing. 6 is better for a hbb.

I posted on here asking for advice on car seats and she gave me very informative advice.

I'd already asked in a FB group but because I was asking about a forward facing seat I got very few responses and none that really answered what I was asking.

@Busby88 I found them to be very rude, i left the group soon after joining no need to talk to people the way they do.

I know exactly the group you are on about! I’ve recently joined a new one called bump to booster and it so far seems much friendlier.

Thank you!

I do try. I am not a fan of the FB groups - too echo chambery and judgemental. It's a shame because I did learn a lot there and I do find it fun to geek out over car seats (yes perhaps I should join one of the various Dull groups instead ) But to be perfectly honest, it is very difficult to tell fact from fiction on them because myths get repeated so often people believe them without question, and it becomes extremely difficult to challenge it because the format of FB groups does not encourage nuance. When it got to the point I was literally seeing the myths grow from nothing to solid, unquestioned, gospel truth I couldn't take it any more and unfollowed them all.

I have not managed to find any relevant evidence supporting either the bone ossification theory, any specific age for turning from RF to FF nor the idea that FF harnesses are worse than seatbelts.

It is definitely true that RF reduces risk compared to FF, and the younger the child the more extreme the difference. If you can make it work then absolutely do because it's worth it. If you can't make it work, get the best FF seat you can. If you can't change the seat you've got, read the instructions and follow them to the letter. Read them again because you'll have forgotten things. (I have.)

You can RF in a small car. (But not with every seat)

You can RF on a budget (But it's not worth going into debt or financial hardship for)

There are RF seats designed for giant tall Swedish children - they have leg room built in. I can put up a picture if you like

It literally doesn't matter which RF seat you choose. It might matter which FF seat you choose - there are more differences between them and the differences matter more.

Using the seat properly (or at all) is much more important than RF/FF. Most children killed or injured in car crashes are unrestrained or improperly restrained. If you're using a good quality FF seat properly, you're already doing better than average. If you find out you've been doing something wrong, don't feel bad, be glad you found out! It's usually easily fixed, and no harm done.

If the law was changed to mandate RF until age 4, it would save about six lives a year (UK figures). I am not saying that those six children aren't important. Of course they are. But it's really not the major issue that ERF advocates make it out to be. The law (15 months) is adequate IMO but I do want parents to know that it is worth RF longer than 15 months if it's working for you. Personally I would aim for a minimum of 2, preferably longer. But any increase in RF is worth it.

I don't think it's helpful that people seeking advice about FF seats are chased away or only offered impossible perfect solutions, and I extremely dislike the words "safe" and "unsafe" used in this context because they are totally misleading. You can only make relative judgements about this, not absolute. Safer/less safe. It's fine to have a personal line that you don't feel comfortable with - I don't think it's fair to impose that line on others. Everyone makes their own risk assessment.

It is bonkers, the whole car seat thing IMO is a not so STEALTH way to show off wealth and status on who can afford the best seats - under the guise of child safety.

People berating another person for not buying a rear facing seat, that is worth more than the car they drive in. From their logic you might as well just never take you child in a car. And then these same people are happy to travel on a train or bus all without a car seat so it seams…..

And trust me I have my hard hat on as I know the car seat cult mob will be out in force (my son is a teenager now and he forward faced more years than some of these posters marriages) and quote me negatively. Don’t bother - I won’t respond.

The thing I always think when I read this stuff is if a car is so dangerous for your kids then why have one at all!

But I am a smug city centre dwelling non car owner.