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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think car seat safety groups on Facebook are absolutely mental!

138 replies

Busby88 · 18/01/2025 22:54

Not sure if many MN members are part of some of the car seat safety groups on Facebook but honestly can’t believe what a mad population they are (and I know MN can also be pretty bonkers!)

Joined for advice on high backed boosters as want to put my almost 5yo in one and all it is is comments about how they should still be rear facing. Seen comments similar aimed at people with almost six year olds looking to forward face.

I completely get the safety aspect and how much safer rear facing is, I really do. And will be rear facing my 4yo as long as possible in my car, but he’s reached the 18kg limit in the seat we have for grandparents to us and it would be nice to just be able to get some advice without just being yelled at for being unsafe.

Honestly can’t believe the negativity and unhelpfulness aimed at people who are even considering forward facing before the age of 6.

OP posts:
TheYearOfSmallThings · 19/01/2025 13:06

It is universe that runs parallel to the real world, and honestly Mumsnet is nearly as bad on this subject.

brummumma · 19/01/2025 13:07

Mine forward faced as soon as they were able - honestly because I had twins and rear facing seats are ridiculously expensive. There is a lot virtue signalling that goes on within the militant ERF groups. If all you do is 30mph trips then rear facing st age 5/6/7 is ridiculous

GrazeConcern · 19/01/2025 13:11

And yes absolutely to people not understanding the difference between unsafe and safer. If you think logically on a journey where there is no collision, no level of safety is enhanced, it’s only in the event of a collision, and even then the benefits are only fully realised in a head on. I’m not saying it’s not worth it, but people’s language and logic around children’s safety (in most situations) is pretty lacking in nuance!

GasPanic · 19/01/2025 13:16

All the ones going beserk about safety are probably the ones piling down the motorway at 90 mph.

mitogoshigg · 19/01/2025 13:21

Back in the real world most families front face by 4 if not younger. I personally used the harnessed graco seats from 2 where the harness can be removed and they become high backed boosters for up to 150cm. Mine used them until secondary school (short dc). Dd1 was in a motorway accident aged just 2 in her (first one, was replaced!) and according to the police it saved her because a rear facing one would have been crushed, first use of that seat, was rear facing until day before! (The rear seat was damaged and the car seat was pushed forward into the drivers seat but due to being short, legs were fine).

I can't speak for other kinds of accidents but this was rear impact at circa 60mph

Proper installation of whatever seat you choose is absolutely critical, make sure it fits your car especially where vehicle seats aren't flat.

RandomUsernameHere · 19/01/2025 13:24

It all sounds very extreme. If they're really that worried about safety, the safest thing would be to never allow their child to travel in a car at all.

Pippinsdiary · 19/01/2025 13:28

MarioLink · 18/01/2025 23:06

I am a person who's child rear-faced way past 4 (small child, 25kg seat, no travel sickness). However I agree the Facebook groups are too extreme. Day to day you see people not using a car seat, not having it properly secured in the car or not having the straps done up anywhere near tight enough so I really can't get upset or judge someone who uses a correctly fitted forward-facing car seat and straps their kid in correctly.

I agree with this. They should be educating people on how to safely forward face your child, ensuring correct fit, good seat etc, not shaming you. Rear facing my tiny 3.5 yo for as long as possible and I am pro rear facing but I also don’t really care what other people do.

RabbitsEatPancakes · 19/01/2025 13:29

JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn · 19/01/2025 00:41

There was no such thing as a rear-facing seat when DD was a baby. She sat in her car seat on the front passenger seat from birth so I could keep an eye on her. No one batted an eyelid. It was perfectly normal at the time. I'm tempted to join one of the Facebook groups just to let them know that.

Everyone is aware of how bad car safety used to be, they don't need reminding. It's because if how many children died/ were injured in car crashes travelling like your DD that technology has been improved.

My MIL loves to say how she had her babies in moses baskets on the backseat, she thinks it's funny to tell the story of sil ending up under the front seats after an emergency stop. She thinks I'm over cautious with car seats. I think she was very lucky.

Pippinsdiary · 19/01/2025 13:30

User457788 · 18/01/2025 23:39

I cannot imagine an age 6 year 2 child still being rear facing 😆 thats madness. Anyway YANBU they're all a bit mad on those groups.

It’s actually not madness, these kind of comments are also part of the problem. You don’t want to do it? Fine. You can get extended refacing seats absolutely fine for a 6 year old if they are within the height and weight limit.

BarbaraHoward · 19/01/2025 13:30

Never braved the FB groups but the threads on here are bad enough.

Never mind the (horrific) emotional blackmail stuff like "you can't put a price on safety" and "I guess I just care more about my children's safety" (a direct quote from yesterday's thread).

But the numeracy is just awful. All you see is claims like "five times safer" but FIVE TIMES WHAT?! Never once have I seen that information. Not sure if they just don't want to acknowledge they don't know or if they genuinely don't realise that they're not actually providing any useful information.

Twaddlepip · 19/01/2025 13:35

BarbaraHoward · 19/01/2025 13:30

Never braved the FB groups but the threads on here are bad enough.

Never mind the (horrific) emotional blackmail stuff like "you can't put a price on safety" and "I guess I just care more about my children's safety" (a direct quote from yesterday's thread).

But the numeracy is just awful. All you see is claims like "five times safer" but FIVE TIMES WHAT?! Never once have I seen that information. Not sure if they just don't want to acknowledge they don't know or if they genuinely don't realise that they're not actually providing any useful information.

Statisticians, they ain’t.

grumpytoddler1 · 19/01/2025 13:40

I don't know about anyone else, but my driving is considerably safer when my 2.5 year old is not vomiting everywhere and screaming his head off, while his brother screams, 'muummyy, he's been sick and it stinks!!!' I think on balance preventing an actual accident is probably better for my children's safety than having the accident and the car seat being safer.

NorthernGirl1981 · 19/01/2025 13:50

I’m very serious about car safety and both of mine rear faced until they were about 6, but I agree that the people in Car Safety Forums can be incredibly judgemental and unkind.

Itisjustmyopinion · 19/01/2025 13:56

The irony is that MN is as bad if not worse than FB when it comes to parenting “advice”. I have seen “well you obviously don’t love your child” type posts on here when it is obvious the parent is struggling both financially and emotionally

BogRollBOGOF · 19/01/2025 14:50

ERF was new, very niche and very expensive when my teenager was a baby. I just didn't have a spare £400 to spend on an online, unseen product that couldn't be viewed in places like Mothercare, Toys R Us or Halfords that may or may not have fitted in my car.

The tone of the groups has not changed since the early 2010s.

It's the lack of nuance that is so frustrating.

The best that money can buy is not an even playing field.

The seat only has its maximum advantages when it's safely installed.

If a seat is going to be humped in and out of various cars, it risks unseen damage. For grandparents cars, it's often better to have a safely installed, well-fitting seat that the grandparents are confident using than a premium product compromised by poor technique.

The seat has to fit in the car. The car needs suitable fixing points. Older, smaller cars have fewer options avaliable.

The child has to be content. A screaming, child significantly increases the risk of an accident from driver distraction. A vomiting child is at a substantial choke risk. I knew a baby turned FF the moment they hit the absolute minimum because they would scream and vomit until they stopped breathing. That was not safer. Parent ended up pulling up randomly all over the place to check baby's welfare when all went silent. That was not safer. Safe driving with a quiet, breathing, FF baby was the better option in that situation! It is quite an extreme case, but I ended up turning DS1 sooner than DS2 because of the hazardous distracting nature of him screaming regardless of mirrors and toys. He was well within the legal range of that point in time, but not today. DS2 was happy until I could no longer fit him in the seat at all.

Fortunately the vast majority of families will not be in situations where the advantages of ERF are put to the test, and those advantages have diminishing returns as the child gets older. The risks of needing the additional benefits of ERF are about speed and driving style. In cases of grandparents and car seats, for occasional use, and local, low speed driving, the risk over the usage of a car seat is already incredibly low.
The sense of statistical nuance in these debates is dire.

In the wider world ERF has increased into toddlerhood with relatively recent changes in legislation, but it's still not standard practice in school age children.

The bigger issue in child/ car safety is the continued use of any age appropriate seat/ booster until it is legally no longer required. I have challenged grandparents ignoring the seat in the rear of the car and driving off from the school run with a toddler on a lap in the front seat 🤦‍♀️. I've also flatly refused to have under-height children of 7-11 yo in my car without a legal seat regardless of what they do at home. I'm the driver and I'm held legally responsible.

The typical dogmatic attitude of ERF discussions inhibits sensible discussion about less than perfect scenarios and prevents people accessing second-best solutions. That makes it more likely that they'll turn to less ideal options. Shame is a poor tool for education.

There's a lot of survivors' bias out there because there are millions of survivors of previous legislation and even pre-seatbelts. Despite the poorer outcomes in the event of a collision, a typical car journey was still a fairly safe thing to do over the course of life. Progress in car safety is of course a good thing, but it still needs some perspective about risk level (and yes, of course I'm glad that my children never repeated a slide into the foowell during abrupt braking like I remember)

Similar purity spiral echo chambers used to arise in BLW and babywearing groups (probably still do!)

Never be too zealous about parenting standards... the world will keep changing and your children/ grandchildren will grow up to be aghast about how cavalier you were against the new standards 😉

Tipperttruck · 19/01/2025 14:54

It does depend on where you drive and when. All our driving is on 20mph roads in the local town. We do 5-15 mins car journeys typically. My DC could easily just be on a bike (and often are) so I wasn't too fussed to switch to forward facing at 5.

AgeGapBbe · 19/01/2025 18:15

GrazeConcern · 19/01/2025 13:06

Agree, the groups lack nuance and logic. And again, I kept mine rear facing as long as I could (4 and 2.5). The groups thrive on bullying and ignoring nuance. For instance it’s a gradual sliding scale on the benefits - it is for instance less risky to forward face a 2.5 year old than a 9 month old (which used to be the standard age for it), just as it’s less risky again to forward face a 3 year old than a 2.5 year old. By 4, the risk is the same as it is for anyone in the car, although I accept that in most collisions rear facing would be better for all involved. That said, the type of driving makes a difference too - I’m sure I read that in a rear end shunt rear facing actually increases the likelihood of whiplash.

This isn’t true I’m afraid. So long as the car is travelling forwards, rear facing is always safer. The only time it wouldn’t be would be if it was reversing at speed into something.

Twaddlepip · 19/01/2025 18:19

AgeGapBbe · 19/01/2025 18:15

This isn’t true I’m afraid. So long as the car is travelling forwards, rear facing is always safer. The only time it wouldn’t be would be if it was reversing at speed into something.

Or if you were driving.

InJadeHedgehog · 19/01/2025 18:33

I understand that these people are advocating what is safest, the problem comes when people who chose differently get defensive and it spirals.
If you think about it, when lots of us were babies and toddlers we travelled on our mum’s laps or in the carrycot played on the back seat, by the time I was 6 or 7 booster seats were recommended so I had one - but my grandad thought it was pointless.
When I had my young adult son, you had a rear facing first seat and turned at around 9 months. My mum thought this was ridiculous.
By the time I had my youngest you rearfaced until 2 or more so I did - although I, myself, thought it was overkill.
It’s hard when what you can do or did is not the best thing for your child. Knowledge moves on, advice changes, most of us trust parenting advice from our parents so it feels hard when someone else tells you that is wrong.

Sinkintotheswamp · 19/01/2025 18:33

They all seem to have large cars. Which doesn't improve everyone else's road safety.
I looked at extended RF seats when mine were little but they wouldn't fit in my car and I couldn't afford a new one.

YouAgainDamnIt · 19/01/2025 18:36

I’m with you. My ds was 5’10 by 12 years old and had been out of a car seat for almost two years as his head was on the ceiling but apparently I was making it up. Grin

ElsaLion · 19/01/2025 18:38

You are definitely NBU, both my DC faced forwards from the age of 18 months - DC1 was the height of a three year old (and is now as tall and heavy as a six year old, at the age of 3.5) and vomited on every journey when he was rear facing. DC2 was very much the same. Both are strapped in securely and safely. Sometimes you have to do what is best for your (child's) personal circumstances.

tiddlerislate · 19/01/2025 18:43

Honestly, in RL I don’t know any children who RFd after two and most before that.

I think in the majority of cases the child starts vocally objecting. That’s definitely what happened with us!

RosaBaby2 · 19/01/2025 18:44

I agree with everything those nutters say difference is some people just know not to bother trying 😂

Cheepcheepcheep · 19/01/2025 18:52

grumpytoddler1 · 19/01/2025 13:40

I don't know about anyone else, but my driving is considerably safer when my 2.5 year old is not vomiting everywhere and screaming his head off, while his brother screams, 'muummyy, he's been sick and it stinks!!!' I think on balance preventing an actual accident is probably better for my children's safety than having the accident and the car seat being safer.

This. I forward faced my 18mo after I was in the car once and he vomited (it happened a lot, we minimised car use but sometimes it’s unavoidable) and he was choking on it. I only realised when my DD told me ‘he can’t breathe’ and I realised I hadn’t heard crying. Pulled over in a panic (not on motorway thank god) and scooped it out of his mouth (oh the joys of parenting).

I don’t love driving in the car with him FF at 2.5 years and tbf we live somewhere where we don’t need to do it loads. But I think the risk of him choking on sick was greater than injury in an accident and I stand by it.

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