To think London is in a major decline?

[Phannyphart]

I’ve lived in London (zone 2) for 10+ years. It’s always been pretty ‘real’ here but since the end of covid really everywhere just seems so, so awful.
Dog shit everywhere, spit everywhere, council owned parks closed and locked, people littering more than ever before. Get on a bus and it’s just people screaming in to a FaceTime on top volume, people blasting TikTok. Kids being stabbed in broad daylight, people shooting up heroin near the nearby primary school. The area has a lot going for it but it really seems wherever I go there is an awful decline.
Has anybody feeling the same actually moved out? Do you regret it?

I am a Londoner I think it is a show of itself.

Scowling at dog owners is pathetic unless you've personally seen them not pick up their dog shit, they'll probably think you're a sociopath.

When was it 5.5m?
It was 9m just before WW2, declined until the early 1990s to around 7m and has increased back up to 9m over the past couple of years.

I am a Londoner by birth and lived here over 50 years.

The area I grew up in was working class but now it's full of expensively extended houses with bifold doors. The little row of shops is now full of antiques.
Meanwhile, what was the local high street is full of vape shops. Shifting sands...

The area that I have spent the rest of my life is on the outskirts of Liverpool. Now, there is a city where some areas have absolutely blossomed and others are grim.

@SpanThatWorld - that should be 6.5million, in the early 1990s. I think we are at 9.5 now

This is quite useful. It shows the growth and where. You can see outer London having greater population growth than the central parts. Suburbs have more people than ever.

trustforlondon.org.uk/data/population-over-time/

My GC started off in a great primary school in a very middle class area but there was a lot of bullying there. Now in a much more mixed school in what could be termed a "less good" area, loads of recent immigrants, students starting without any English, the vast majority come from families originally from other countries, but the school is much better in terms of friendly parents and hardly any bullying. My GC has caught up at school and is much happier.

My family and I visited central London for the first time in 2 years over the Christmas period, we travelled in from the tube near Hertfordshire, it felt unsafe, druggies on the tube rocking back and forth. I hate the place nowadays, I hold onto my handbag incase it gets snatched and was mighty relived to get back out. The place is a bog hole. I have London roots and feel my grandparents would be upset to see what London now is. I’d be happy if I never went there again and wonder how on earth people cope living there, especially considering the cost. Hell!

It's not happening everywhere. London is in decline and the rise in crime/violence is appalling

I live in Tower Hamlets, I guess you’re not far away? It isn’t always as clean as I’d like, but the parks are stunning, schools are excellent, shopping and food choices are amazing thanks to the borough’s diversity, people are friendly. Personally I love living here and find it hard to think about leaving.

“84 per cent of people are satisfied with our local area and 90 per cent say people from different backgrounds get on well with each other in our cohesive community”

www.towerhamlets.gov.uk/News_events/2025/January/Tower-Hamlets-welcomes-being-named-as-the-best-place-to-live-in-East-London.aspx

This is so true. I was born and raised in London, only moved away 7 years ago. And I would never go back!

It's so busy, people are so aggressive with their driving, so much traffic.

The only good thing is that there are lots of jobs going around, and lots of restaurants to choose from.

Cars ruin most cities

In what way?

Well it's just more crowded! I suppose one example is my living in a sleepy bit of London where the trains barely had anyone on them. 20 years on and they are rammed.

I’ve lived in London 30 years, first as a graduate in Clapham (which was a cheap place grads lived in the 90s!), now in Herne Hill (having detoured for many years in Kilburn and West Hampstead).

I can categorically say London has deteriorated to a distinctly unpleasant place to live and I’m now cashing in the London property premium and moving out.

Granted London has the cultural advantage, and I will miss that (being able to walk / bus / tube everywhere).

But I blame Covid. During lockdown, the social contract broke down. People from the PM down decided there were rules they didn’t feel like obeying, and since then that has manifested itself with ULEZ, shoplifting (which the vast majority is nothing to do with poverty), mobile phone snatching, speeding, running red lights, parking in front of schools, etc.

I’m done with it.

I live East London having moved from West London 12 years ago, and I can't say I've experienced what you're seeing. In 30 years here I've never seen anyone ever shoot up on the streets, I don't see any extra dog shit and spitting (the spitting has always happened in my experience and it's bloody gross). There is a nationwide rise in crime which is obviously seen in London too. I certainly don't feel less safe than at any other point in London.

1.London stinks of skunk weed all the time.

2.Too many deliveroo/uber eats black scooters driven by people clearly learned to drive in 3rd world w no rules. All black clothes, black scooter - zero visibility.
3.too many men just sitting around all day, getting approached by others … in parks, corners etc
4.too many people w face covering & hoody all the time
5.too many those stupid really loud cars
6.too many people cheering the shoplifters
7.too many e-bikes dumped in the street
8.too many of the illegal high speed scooters
9.rubbish out not following the rules

and yes, those scum who let their “security” dogs shit in street and don’t pick it up.

There’s street sweepers out most days because people just can’t put rubbish in bins or collect dog poop & put it in the poop-bin. There’s poop right in front of the poop-bin most days, how effing lazy or disinterested must’ve be to do that?

and the dogs off lead … especially the bully ones.

Peckham no go 10 years ago is ridiculously overstated.

Streets in Peckham, like so many parts of outer London, are very varied. Parts are very gentrified and others can still be rough.

So its hard living in londin because the trains are rammed? Could you cycle?

Or post-covid.
I don't think Brexit has much to do with it tbh

@VoodooRajin - used to motorcycle in but frankly the roads got busier... and more dangerous!

Absolutely. I live over the Pennines in another god forsaken ex mill town and it sounds pretty much like where you live (funnily enough I’m from Yorks but moved in the 90s). The town I live in was actually ok at first but the decline started around 2010. Multiple libraries and Surestarts quickly shut which were a godsend when my kids were toddlers, massive cuts to council spending, most chain shops have left to be replaced by Vape shops and dodgy tanning parlours. Hate to say it but the demographic has also changed dramatically because essentially it’s cheap to house folk here.

Don't be daft, take a look at Los Angeles, Philladelphia or San Francisco, there's shocking drug use, anti social behaviour and poverty in these places..

It’s already happened in some parts of Britain.
I’ve visited London twice this year and love the place. Apart from house prices I don’t know what you’re moaning about tbh. Some need to get out of their bubble a bit.

I would agree that certain parts of London post COVID have these issues. Mostly seen in suburbs of London; see Croydon as a clear example.