To think schools should have rules for everyone or don't bother having them

[Whatisgoingonheredear]

School are once again pulling some people up on minor uniform issues.

A kid has a pink stripe on her PE trainers instead of them being black. Meanwhile another child wears spiderman trainers as his main school shoes daily.
Hair bands have to be school colours only and subtle. Meanwhile another child is wearing a unicorn hairband daily.
No stand-out hair styles or unnatural colours. One girl has had purple hair since last year.
No toys for little ones in class unless you need fidget toys, in which case you need special permission from the teacher. This one I do understand but unsurprisingly, there has been a rise in children thinking "if I mess around I can take a toy in". Instead of this rule, just make a bucket of fidget toys available for the teacher to pass out as needed? Then there are no toys from home and everyone's needs are also met.

Expecting this thread to go badly but I think you either enforce rules or you don't bother having them.
For context, state primary, juniors.

Depends on if your rules are sensible. Some of Your examples I suspect are to do with Special educational needs

Be aware that if a child needs insoles the pink stripes trainer or spiderman trainer may well be the reward for wearing them. Indeed they may be the only shoe that can fit them in.

Yes I agree about the fidget toys. But actually most schools simply don't have the finances to fund the endless supply of fidget toys that are needed.

It's up to parents to show good parenting and correct their child if they child makes ridiculous comments about behaving badly to get the same concessions as a child who has significantly more challenges than they do.

Well lots of people concentrate better when doing something with their hands. Eg during my degree a lot of female student knitted. Before fidget toys my son used to fiddle with a paper clip.
One of my daughter's got special permission for a summer term to wear "doddles" as within a week of getting new shoes she lost them (actually put them away "safely" and forgot).
Some children really struggle to get to school at all, their families struggle to have them half decent.

On the whole rules should be enforced. But even the strictest school my children went to would show compassion.

And it's non of your business what problems other children have to deal with.

Yeah this

Yep I'm with you @Whatisgoingonheredear

When my two DCs were at infant school we got pulled up over a pair of socks. My DDs socks were apparently black when they only allowed navy blue. That bloody petty.

Cut to a week later when the school appeared in the local paper, with a photo showing 4 pupils smiling with the headteacher.

After the sock incident, those in the photo had:

One girl in a stripey pink cardigan, despite school dictating green school logo only
One boy in jeans, despite the school saying grey school trousers only
One girl in stripy knee socks which were neither navy or school appropriate
And another lad wearing a Nike hoodie, also not part of the uniform.

I cut it out, and placed a note with it for the divvy teacher who moaned about my DD's socks. Which, for the record, were navy in the first place.

They never moaned again.

There is a phenomenon in disability discrimination called 'chair envy' where non-disabled employees are aggrieved that the person with the long term musculoskeletal condition has a special chair. The non-disabled colleagues don't need a chair like that themselves, they just resent someone else getting something they perceived to be 'special'.

I hope they knitted quietly and not the clack clack clack noise or thats rude

I didn't realise that's what it was called. It's crazy isn't it... do you want my disability? No. Just to have your own chair..

I would point out that just handing a kid a fidget toy from a bucket wouldn't have helped my autistic DS. He had one fiddler that belonged to him, he kept it safe, he loved the bloody thing. He didn't fiddle much, if at all, with it in lessons - he just had it like some sort of safety blanket. He's an adult and it's probably still in his room.

To be honest, I think if a school is having to make a lot of exceptions to a rule as reasonable adjustment, they might need to think is the rule necessary at all?

I personally think it's more inclusive than the person who needs a unicorn headband for whatever reason than standing out. My son with a physical disability wouldn't use some of his support due to feeling awkward in front of friends. A small chikd might be fine in different supportive shoes, but a lot of teens want to fit in, so a wider variety of shoes for everyone woukd allow that.

I see some rules are needed and I see that sometimes adjustments are needed anyway. But my view is the more inclusive your start point, the less exceptions you need.

I hated that my mum was a stickler for the school rules but nobody else’s bothered and the school didn’t care.

Everyone wore black trainers. I had to wear shoes. The uniform said something about ‘no fashionable styles’ which everyone had a fitted blazer, blouse and trousers. I felt like such a looser sticking to the rules.

I hated that the ‘cool’ kids got away with doing what they wanted. In the end I used to spend my own money on a secret stash of uniform that I used to change into.

I was jealous of the grammar school with them all wearing the same uniform. All had to wear the same blazer, blouse, skirt, coat, bag from the school shop.

Seeing as the whole point of school is to be there to learn in a variety of ways and studies show we learn best when we feel happy and comfortable. I think doing away with all the ridiculous nonsense rules would benefit everyone.

I have a child with SEN he isn't trying to stand out,be difficult or thinks he is special to not adhere to rules. He is quite literally trying to survive an environment he finds some days intolerable. Some days different socks and shoes make him feel a little more in control and comfortable to be in an environment he doesn't always understand and feels threatening. For someone who struggles to make friendships the fact he has sonic on his socks can help him navigate a really lonely environment.

I find it bizarre how much school want to teach kindness and inclusivity, yet how much they get hung up on uniform and rules.

While the examples you give create interesting points of debate, it might be worth you looking at the SEND code of practice and the Equality Act. It might help you to understand that, while rules/laws should apply to all, reasonable adjustments should be made to account for individual needs within the context of protected characteristics and SENDs.

I can see how things like fidget toys and shoes could be about disability (e.g. A child may need orthopaedic footwear which may not be available in same design or colour as school shoes) but purple hair isn't an SEN. It's like someone with am SEN might need to play music in a public place, that is reasonable , but if they choose to do it without headphones that's taking the piss. I say this as someone who is ND.

Uniform might be due to sensory needs, some of our children cannot wear a polo shirt or trousers so wear a t shirt and joggers instead.

Fidget toys, again are at the agreement with the teacher. Those that need one generally bring one from home but we do have some in school along with other items to help those that need it and we will hand out as necessary.

I get you OP Pupils are told the rules are important therefore they must obey them, then they see other children being allowed to "ignore" the rules and they don't understand why. Is it any wonder our children have realised that to wear the trainers they want or get to ignore the teacher they either just have to have an issue so they say they anxiety or become badly behaved because being badly behaved pays. They then continue this behaviour into adulthood. We have created this mess

Yep. Our son needs certain footwear due to a disability, at his last primary some parents complained to the school that he was breaking uniform rules and not being told off, I wonder how many of those parents would have wanted his disability for their little darlings.

I agree.
Don’t have rules that aren’t going to be fully enforced. It’s much easier on the staff, pupils and parents to not have the rules at all.
The pupils and parents often “break the rules” because they are applied inconsistently and I’d hazard a bet that it’s no fun for adults having to tell people to take their coat/hoodie off before they enter the building or whatever.

What do you want primary schools to do?
Expel the children and deny them an education?
As long as clothes are suitable for the day (ie not a summer dress on a day when it's forest school) or don't have slogans on that are rude or offensive - primary children should be able to wear what they like.
Secondary too in my humble opinion.

Schools, and particularly primary schools, need to decide which hills they are willing to die on. My DD's primary school had a "white or black trainers only" rule and she was told off for having black and white trainers. I wasn't going to buy trainers for school and out of school and finding wide enough trainers for her wasn't easy or cheap. She wasn't in control of what I would or wouldn't buy. And the parents generally agreed to ignore that rule. So all it did was cause friction. Her secondary school and others locally don't seem to have rules like that about trainers. It's all so pointless.

I agree with this and this is my point.

I think there ahold be a flimsy uniform policy but the stuff about hair, socks, and that sort of thing is ridiculous.
It should be as simple as -
Polo shirt/jumper school colours, unbranded
Trousers
Summer shirt
Black school shoes

The end.

My secondary school had a strict uniform policy. I was often breaking this because my family would not pay £50 for a school branded blazer. My clothes got confiscated. When the head tried to do it on one occasion, I informed him I had a black bra on under my shirt and people would see it. He started telling me a black bra was inappropriate and I made very loud remarks about his policy now extended to underwear, would he prefer my bra was visible all day, etc.
On this occasion my blazer was not confiscated but I did get a letter sent home about it!!!!
Anyway, me and my unbranded blazer left with all A*s and he was encouraged to leave by the governors for being too focused on uniform.

As for the SEN stuff, I do totally understand that!
But I'm not sure purple hair makes a difference in regards to that.

I say this as an autistic person.

I just think if the school are going to offer flexibility in some cases then they shouldn't be strict in regards to other children.

It’s not fair on children and creates a tremendous amount of stress and anxiety. They don’t understand why they’re getting into trouble for wearing the wrong socks but the kid who’s not even in correct uniform gets to go round punching people. It makes them feel unsafe and that the teachers are picking on them but favouring other children.
Of course after being punished unfairly over a period of time the child will lose their temper one day and lash out at the bullies, or just in general, and the school will punish them severely and give the parents half the story that the parents will believe but doesn’t really add up. And then comes mental issues and school refusal etc etc.

What do the school actually do about the pink stripe on trainers?

If they are just moaning at you/sending uniform reminders, then they are probably also doing the same with the other parents.

If they are punishing your child, then I would complain as the uniform is not enforceable at primary (is it? wasn't historically anyway).

They generally do. But they must make reasonable adjustments where necessary, it's the law. I suppose younger children may not understand this though. But older children and parents can.

Abso-fucking-lutely.

We had a period of reluctance to go in to school at the start of the year because classes had been mixed up. She wanted to take a toy in with her as it was comforting, she puts it in her tray once inside. I was told she wasn't allowed. She told me that another boy has a pile of fidget toys every day and he has them for all of the lessons. I obviously understand why he might need them but thought alright well fidget toys must be permitted.
So as her comfort toy, I let her take a fidget toy in.
It was confiscated for the day.
I'm very lucky she didn't decide she didn't want to go in any more!

I understand why children need fidget toys but I think this was wildly unfair especially as the child I am talking about is 5 years old.

To accommodate everyone's needs they'd be so much better off just being flexible with arbitrary rules.

Let everyone that needs comfort have it.
Let everyone who struggles with uniform use a basic uniform framework that can be adapted to their needs e.g. school colours only but no set items.