To not think the UK is as bad as everyone makes out?

[turkeypasty]

Sorry if this is an odd question but everywhere on mumsnet you see rants about how terrible everything is. I am European and could move abroad, but my son and husband (and myself) are super happy here in the UK, the primary school is lovely, we live in the North in the hills and get plenty of outdoor time... We earn ok but not massively and seem to live a good lifestyle- do you think that people just like to moan or have I got very low standards?! There seems to be issues in every country you live surely... It makes me genuinely think if I should move abroad whilst my son is still young, but then why should we if we are happy here? Just really interested in opinions!

I think it depends on where you are and your experiences. We live in the country, in an early 18th C cottage on a country estate. It's beautiful- it's a tiny hamlet, the people are lovely and the place is gorgeous. Our rent is cheap and we have good lives. We aren't flush for money but manage what we have and I wouldn't change a thing. This was my dog walk this morning!

I spent some time in Australia back in the 1980s and early 2000's

whilst the English like to moan I found the Aussies were gold medal standards where as English were a mere bronze

I came back to England with relief 😂

@Mauro711

I agree that there are areas of the UK that is absolutely stunning but that matters less if the country isn't functioning. If young people can't afford to move out, if elderly people who fall and break a hip has to wait 14 hours for an ambulance, if a young child with a chest infection can't get in to see the GP, if a young middle earning family can't afford to have a second child because of the childcare costs and so on then there is very little consolation looking a pretty green hills and quaint stone cottages. I think that's the difference between the UK (at least England) now and the majority of european countries on a similar wealth level.

This 💯

I do think the weather makes a massive difference. Not temperature, but weather. Last week it was freezing, but it was generally sunny, you could go out for a walk wrapped up in suitable clothing and it was nice. Today it's damp so going for the same walk (and yes I do have suitable outdoor wear) means either changing shoes in the office or tramping wet mud around in my boots. My coat is damp and I've got to try and get it dry to go out at lunch. Whilst this kind of goes with the territory in January to some degree, it was the same in August, September this year when it should reliably be shorts and trainers for a day out.

I also think time is more under pressure now. The 9-5 is now the 8.30-6, plus the commutes as our overcrowded roads and public transport networks bulge because people don't live and work locally, and we are dependent on the car for the smallest journey like to the local shop, which people will say is due to safety but in reality is due to a) the above pressure on time and then b) laziness. Overcrowding doesn't help, and yes we are overcrowded in many areas. We need to stop population growth here rather than just building more and more houses without associated infrastructure. Contentious but we also need to stop keeping people alive at all costs. I watched my nan be 'kept alive' (this is different to living) and she was either distressed or had no idea what was going on for about 4 years, on such a concoction of drugs, I'm sure the stress was what contributed to my own mother's heart attack because she was so heavily leant on for personal care and all the admin whilst still trying to work full time in her early 60s. We do seem to have a very 'frail' elderly population compared to the areas in Europe I have friends/family enough to spend reasonable amount of time there (as opposed to only visiting on a city break weekend)

I also think the country is really dirty. Nowhere has bins any more in case someone sets them on fire or hides a bomb in them. How fucking depressing is that! No it doesn't excuse littering, but we were stopped at a regional swiss rail station the other week and there were proper bins inc recycling every 20m or so down the platform. In Paris in the spring, in the run up to the Olympics, on a random street alongside a road (not a main tourist centre area either) I could see, in line of sight, more bins than I walk past on my usually 5k dog walk loop round mostly new-ish build housing estates at home.

I know people in the most 'local' EU Countries have similar moans about their countries, and I think that living standards are just dropping off a cliff across all of the west, so stuff is compared to how stuff used to be.

Have you had to wait nearly two years for a NHS opp - or be told by your NHS doctor if you can pay you should consider it to be seen quicker. Have you ever had to phone for an ambulance for someone - how many hours did you wait? How many hours did they wait? Are your libraries, sports centres etc open or just manned by volunteers? Is your High Street buyoant or is it run down - but still extortionate to park? Have you taken a train recently - the ticket prices confuse even the staff? Have you seen the recent flooding causing places that have never flooded before to flood because local authorities have not been maintaining/cleaning drains and rivers have not been dreged. Have you been a victim of crime?

England is in a terrible terrible state and has been for a while. 20 years ago the above were not issues - and yet I pay so much tax.

If you really wanted to move to the US or Scandinavian countries it is perfectly possible to do so - I know plenty who have done it. I don't know about Japan.

I think it is very easy to say "Oh things are so much better elsewhere, if only I could move there" rather than working out how to make the move and then contending with the realities of living in those countries.

It's standard on here to trash the Uk and act like mainland Europe is some kind of oasis where nothing negative even happens. I saw someone on here try and say they don't get depressed in other European countries. Like what???

Brexit is blamed for absolutely everything constantly even stuff that was obviously caused by Covid and war in Russia/Ukraine.

People go on holiday to the most expensive parts of France then come back and make threads about how EVERYTHING is better there even the kids are apparently better (there's a thread on this every couple of months)

I'm not disputing all your points, just some of them because I believe them to be untrue. I don't think 9-5 has become 8.30 - 6.00 for many people unless you have quite a high powered, well paid job. I work 9 to 4pm and my friends work similar hours or 9-5.

As for saying nowhere has bins - seriously?? Yes, they don't have them in stations. This has been the case since I was a child in the 80s and we had the threat of the IRA. However, our streets are full of bins! If I walk down my short suburban street there are two bins. If I go to the city centre there are bins everywhere. It's clean where I live. I don't see rubbish on the floor.

Yes they do! I’m on a fb group with people from US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Northern Europe, and everyone complains (a lot!!) about where they live! It isn’t just us

@JarvisIsland id say the opposite with work, mine has become so much more flexible! My role used to be 9-5.30 office based. Now it’s flexi hours (aka work any hours I like between 7-7), and hybrid/wfh. Lots of places have introduced flexi time, hybrid working etc, something that hardly existed 15 years ago!

I think we must take things into perspective.

I wouldn't like to live in the USA with its own set of social problems except with gun violence and the cost of healthcare on top. And the nutters electing other nutters to the Presidential Office. Mr Boring in Number 10 is the total opposite.

At least I'm not in Afghanistan, or the UAE or Iran where women's access to their human rights are denied.

At least my daughter can go to school, and not have to pay for it.

At least I get employment benefits, such as redundancy pay, maternity pay, bank holidays, and holidays pay.

Although not perfect, I breathe better air than in some countries, and drink cleaner water than in others.

I could go on but to be honest I think I've made my point.

I spent the New Year with an Australian friend who lives in Sydney. Her job sounded really tough (she works long hours) and she was complaining about how expensive Sydney is now. She is looking to retire outside of Sydney. I think all English-speaking and European countries are facing similar issues.

That's a very low bar though. Comparing it to Afghanistan and Iran and being happy that at least your daughter gets an education and there is maternity pay etc is the very, very bare minimum. You should compare the standard of living in the UK with countries that has similar wealth and values.

If you kerp afghanistan as benchmark, you may soon be in something similar.

And it's offensive actually. Do you still say "eat your food, kids in africa are starving"? "don't moan, women in Afghanistan have it worse" is the same imho

I agree we shouldn't use Afghanistan as a benchmark. However, there are others on this thread talking about other European countries and the US/Australia and saying things like "The UK is so dirty compared to other countries. There's dog shit everywhere. There are no opportunities in the UK". I think these people probably don't have much knowledge about life in other countries.
Many of the countries the UK is being compared with are dirtier than the UK, have fewer opportunities than the UK, have a poor standard of living - but people just don't see it. They're assuming the UK is far worse than comparable countries. It's not true. I say this as someone who's lived in three other European countries and have in-laws in another EU country and in Asia, so I feel I can compare.

I don’t think it’s bad as everybody makes out either.

I have many friends from other places who have happily made the UK their home. I have lived overseas many times and happy to be in the UK.

I just need a payrise!

(and yes the friends I am referring to are all from equally wealthy, developed countries)

That wasn't my intention at all. You are looking for a chance to be offended. Sheesh. This place is a den of vipers at times.

I am not looking for chance to be offended. I am just absolutely fed up of people using women in Afghanistan to put some weird perspective of how UK isn't so bad by being not as bad.
What other comparisons shall we use?
UK, positive. At least can buy foof and am not starving in famine in Somalia?

I think what is getting me down is the increasing polarisation in the UK. A lot of this is sparked and fed by social media and now used to good effect by the likes of Elon Musk, Russia and now other tech billionaires.I read recently that most people especially the young now get their news from social media. Even more worrying that an increasing proportion of under 45s would prefer a strong leader rather than a democratically elected government .Where have we heard that before?

Lies are now ok if they back up your own world view. .I am a grandmother and I really worried about my grandchild's future in this new world . The UK is becoming a intolerant divided place and it's spilling into all areas of life.

The divisions within society are widening so this leaves an opening for populists with dog whistle sounds bites usually making reference to loss of UK culture and scapegoating various groups. It happened in the 1960s with Enoch Powell, in the late 70s with the National Front leading to the Brixton and other riots. The only difference now is that these divisive messages are amplified many times over by social media. Freedom of speech without responsibility. And hence Brexit which is now beginning to bite.

Decreasing these divisions needs investment in health and other public services. The idea that we can have Scandinavian or German levels of public services on American style like taxation is a myth. It's leading us down the road of what the economist JK G Galbraith said 'private affluence and public squalor. Dirty rivers, failing health service , poorer outcomes in education and other services. I am depressed because we are well on our way and I see no way of reversing it.

Some people are never happy and will moan whatever is happening in our country.

I booked a holiday to another European country last year (a multiple city break, not a package holiday). My Google newsfeed was, consequently, filled with stories from that country. It was constant stories of tourist accommodation taking our homes and driving up prices, drought and water restrictions, farmers driving their tractors to blockade the city centres to protest about the pittance they're paid for food. So, news stories painting a picture of much unhappiness and unrest. Same sh*t, different country (except here it's flooding rather than drought).

I love the UK - my family are born and raised here, I grew up here and I have visited most places and have a life here etc. However nowhere feels like home to me. I have lived in London but the older I get, the less safe I feel. And the rest of the UK still has their issues on a smaller scale. My problem is, I don’t particularly have any country I would be happy to move abroad for. So I’m just stuck with itchy feet

Exactly!

Is this because you think it leads to apathy? I said the exact thing ' at least not Afghanistan' ', that doesn't detract from the fact I do fear it wouldn't be unfathomable to get somewhere closer to that here.

It doesn't stop me seeing some of what's wrong here and complaining.

I will rephrase it next time I think to ' at least it's not Afghanistan; but it very well could be'.

Perhaps if you’d been born as a poor British kid in a typical abandoned town that fills up steadily with drug dealers you’d understand a bit more. Especially as a girl in a highly sexist country. I had a European lecturer once who spoke in disgusted and astonished tones about Britain still having an aristocracy: I could add being treated like a whore no matter how much you work, what you look like or try to do, in danger when you walk down a street, constantly harassed with no way out of your hopeless abandoned town.

Contrary to common opinion, immigrants especially European ones are bloody well off compared to the impoverished and powerless lower British working classes. The fact that they are here when most cannot afford a trip to the next town shows that. And yes, if you’re well off you won’t see the danger. I didn’t even live in one of the real no-go shitholes where guns were carried and there is no law.

Things are worse now than when I was a kid, not better.

At least UK children don't need Kevlar back packs to go to school .
The negative headlines are spewed out by the like of the Daily Mail and a Sm platform owned by a nut.
The UK has it's problems that there's no doubt but they didn't begin six months ago with the Labour government.
You want to try living in Scotland with the SNP at the helm for Fourteen years.